New Buyer in Nebraska wanting brand opinions

[Hottubguy]

I think they work but aren't needed. The goal is to have a spa that is clean, sanitized and hot. Circ pumps work but so don't non circ pump tubs. I have sold both in the past but in my experience the first thing that usually needs to be replaced in a tub is the circ pump. So if you can have the same results without one then what is the need

[Ryan VSO]

the need is simple , if you dont have a circ pump , you have to use your 2 speed pump to make the filtration and the heating resulting in an higher electricity cost , secondly a circ pump is silent and thirdly it cost half of the price to replace one ( wich will last as long as a 2 speed pump ) .

[DamSam]

Does the hot spot relay come with one (Circulation Pump)?

The Relay does not come with an Ozanator (or equivalent) like most other brands have standard. It is a $450 upgrade. This all makes my brain hurt.

[Ryan VSO]

They might list it as an option and use it  to close the sale , Theres much better product than an ozonator for about the same price ....  I would not pay 500 $ for an ozonator if I were you .

[Hottubguy]

I wouldn't agree with that. What kind of circ pump are you using that does 40 gpm as most I know of do between 6-15gpm?  I have seen lots of people replacing those pumps quite often while most 2 speed spa pumps last over 8-10 years. I think circ pumps work fine but I wouldn't base my purchase on that. There are 2 different ways to achieve the same end result. Marquis are known to be one of the leaders in energy efficiency yet don't use a circ pump so that argument doesn't hold really hold up. If you set a marquis to run for 2 hours per day at 80 gpm then that's 9600 gallons whereas if you set a circ pump drawing 15 gpm for 8 hours then you get 7200 gallons. On low speed the mp-160 pump draws about 3 amps and you said your circ pump draws 1.5 amps so again I don't see any cost difference. A circ pump will be a little quieter but you can't really hear the marquis when they are in circulating mode anyway

[TwinCitiesHotSpring]

Does the hot spot relay come with one (Circulation Pump)?

The Relay does not come with an Ozanator (or equivalent) like most other brands have standard. It is a $450 upgrade. This all makes my brain hurt.

all Limelight and Highlife collection models have 24hr. silent circ. pump standard but the Rhythm, Relay, Tempo do not and its not even an option.

BTW your brain hurts because your over analyzing every small detail...My advice, pick a few reputable brands (Hot Spring, Sundance, Jacuzzi, Marquis) find models within those brands that meet your needs and budget...take the family and wet test a couple of them and pick the one you find most comfortable

Happy Soaking!!!

[Sam]

I wouldn't agree with that. What kind of circ pump are you using that does 40 gpm as most I know of do between 6-15gpm?  I have seen lots of people replacing those pumps quite often while most 2 speed spa pumps last over 8-10 years. I think circ pumps work fine but I wouldn't base my purchase on that. There are 2 different ways to achieve the same end result. Marquis are known to be one of the leaders in energy efficiency yet don't use a circ pump so that argument doesn't hold really hold up. If you set a marquis to run for 2 hours per day at 80 gpm then that's 9600 gallons whereas if you set a circ pump drawing 15 gpm for 8 hours then you get 7200 gallons. On low speed the mp-160 pump draws about 3 amps and you said your circ pump draws 1.5 amps so again I don't see any cost difference. A circ pump will be a little quieter but you can't really hear the marquis when they are in circulating mode anyway

I agree with all of this.  I'll also add that most circ pumps are in a closed loop.  The water that is in all of the rest of the plumbing stays in the plumbing and is not filtered or sanitized with the rest.  You can see this phenomenon in action when you turn on the jets and cooler water comes out of the initial blast.  This water then needs to be reheated, filtered and sanitized.  Some tubs have a purge cycle that turns the jets on to solve this though.  Again, don't let a circ pump be a deciding factor in your purchase.  There are positives and negatives, but they work fine with or without when done properly.

No offense, but sometimes I read Ryan VSO's posts containing lots of partially correct information and cringe.  I usually don't have time to reply to them.  You say stuff with conviction, so it sounds good, but there are quite a few inaccuracies.  Again, no offense buddy.  Just putting that out there.  I have given incorrect information before as well.  Nobody is perfect.

[Ryan VSO]

I wouldn't agree with that. What kind of circ pump are you using that does 40 gpm as most I know of do between 6-15gpm?  I have seen lots of people replacing those pumps quite often while most 2 speed spa pumps last over 8-10 years. I think circ pumps work fine but I wouldn't base my purchase on that. There are 2 different ways to achieve the same end result. Marquis are known to be one of the leaders in energy efficiency yet don't use a circ pump so that argument doesn't hold really hold up. If you set a marquis to run for 2 hours per day at 80 gpm then that's 9600 gallons whereas if you set a circ pump drawing 15 gpm for 8 hours then you get 7200 gallons. On low speed the mp-160 pump draws about 3 amps and you said your circ pump draws 1.5 amps so again I don't see any cost difference. A circ pump will be a little quieter but you can't really hear the marquis when they are in circulating mode anyway

Heater sensor require at least 20 gpm .... otherwise they get a flow error , have 2 cycle of 1 hours in a 24 hours period is useless lol that mean that your water wont move 22 hours per day if the heater doesnt kick in . You need at least 4 cycle per day it can be 1 hour or 2 hour per cycle . you would not need to move 7200 gallon of water per hour when your hot tub only contain 400 . A 2 speed pump wont last longer than a circ pump as long as you use the same quality for each pump . By the way , every company claim to be the most energy efficient.


You can blame me but every detail count for me because this is my job and In some market we sell our tubs the Kw cost 20 cents so its important for us ,the mp-160 pump draws 3.4 amp and our circ pump draws ( 1.2 but I said 1.5 so i will stick to it .)

Just some funny calculation :

A circ Pump cost to replace : 159.95
mp-160 pump cost to replace : 499 $

mp-160 pump cost to run per year at 4 hours a day at a 10 cents Kw rate ; 101.72 $
Vortex Circ Pump cost to run per year at 4 hours a day at a 10 cents kw rate : 47.52 $

Circ Pump economy : 54.52 $ /Year

I would add 2 hours of heating average per day ( that include weekly soaking purpose and colder climate ):

mp-160 pump cost to run per year at 6 hours a day at a 10 cents Kw rate ; 161.72 $
Vortex Circ Pump cost to run per year at 6 hours a day at a 10 cents kw rate : 71.28 $

Circ Pump Economy : 90,44 $ / year

Im not agreeing that a 2 speed pump would last longer but let say you are right and a circ pump last 3 years and 2 speed pump last 9 years .

cost of replacing 3 circ pump after 10 years 480 $
cost of replacing 1 x 2 speed pump after 10 years 499$

Electricity saving after 10 years = 904 $ considering that the electricity kw rate wont increase .

So yeah its a detail I would consider when buying a spa , if one has it and the other has not and they are both at the same price ....

[Ryan VSO]

I wouldn't agree with that. What kind of circ pump are you using that does 40 gpm as most I know of do between 6-15gpm?  I have seen lots of people replacing those pumps quite often while most 2 speed spa pumps last over 8-10 years. I think circ pumps work fine but I wouldn't base my purchase on that. There are 2 different ways to achieve the same end result. Marquis are known to be one of the leaders in energy efficiency yet don't use a circ pump so that argument doesn't hold really hold up. If you set a marquis to run for 2 hours per day at 80 gpm then that's 9600 gallons whereas if you set a circ pump drawing 15 gpm for 8 hours then you get 7200 gallons. On low speed the mp-160 pump draws about 3 amps and you said your circ pump draws 1.5 amps so again I don't see any cost difference. A circ pump will be a little quieter but you can't really hear the marquis when they are in circulating mode anyway

I agree with all of this.  I'll also add that most circ pumps are in a closed loop.  The water that is in all of the rest of the plumbing stays in the plumbing and is not filtered or sanitized with the rest.  You can see this phenomenon in action when you turn on the jets and cooler water comes out of the initial blast.  This water then needs to be reheated, filtered and sanitized.  Some tubs have a purge cycle that turns the jets on to solve this though.  Again, don't let a circ pump be a deciding factor in your purchase.  There are positives and negatives, but they work fine with or without when done properly.

No offense, but sometimes I read Ryan VSO's posts containing lots of partially correct information and cringe.  I usually don't have time to reply to them.  You say stuff with conviction, so it sounds good, but there are quite a few inaccuracies.  Again, no offense buddy.  Just putting that out there.  I have given incorrect information before as well.  Nobody is perfect.

I get it , let me rephrase this : On hot tub that have small amount of jets , only 1 pump is required , if you do have a circulation pump that mean that only the water that is inside the tub will be heated and sanitized , water that is trapped into the jets plumbing wich represent 3-5 % of the total amount of water wont be heated and sanitized UNLESS like every Vortex and hopefully most of the other brand a 1 min purge at the begining of each cycle is done .

I guess we both right ... we dont carry only 1 pump tub , the miniumum jets we are offering on a spa is 45 to ensure maximal hydrotherapy so we always have a minimum of 2 pumps + 1 circulation to cut the noise and be more efficient .

No offence , but you need at least 4 cycle of 1 hours a day , I would not recommend to have 2 cycle of 1 hours a day thats for sure .

[Isaac-1]

Ryan I am not sure where your getting your numbers from, but looking at HotSpring tubs with circulation pumps, their current E5 circulaiton pump is rated at 6,000 gallons per day, which my math says is 4.16 gpm,  they also claim that the E5 pump flows 20% more water than its predecessor.  Which would tend to pump minimum flow somewhere under 4GPM.

[Ryan VSO]

Ryan I am not sure where your getting your numbers from, but looking at HotSpring tubs with circulation pumps, their current E5 circulaiton pump is rated at 6,000 gallons per day, which my math says is 4.16 gpm,  they also claim that the E5 pump flows 20% more water than its predecessor.  Which would tend to pump minimum flow somewhere under 4GPM.

this mean that the circulation pump is not connected through the heater . Balboa require 16 gpm if I remember and gecko need 20 gpm .

[Isaac-1]

The Hot Spring circulation pump is MOST DEFINATELY connected through the heater, I have replaced mine and the hose goes right from the circulation pump to the heater.

[Ryan VSO]

The Hot Spring circulation pump is MOST DEFINATELY connected through the heater, I have replaced mine and the hose goes right from the circulation pump to the heater.

when its heating do see any water coming through the jets ?

[Isaac-1]

No, when it heats, warm water and air bubbles from the ozonator come out from the floor circulation  fitting only

[wmccall]

I think they work but aren't needed. The goal is to have a spa that is clean, sanitized and hot. Circ pumps work but so don't non circ pump tubs. I have sold both in the past but in my experience the first thing that usually needs to be replaced in a tub is the circ pump. So if you can have the same results without one then what is the need

In 10 years of my Dynasty, I had to replace the 2nd pump, which ran for filtration twice.