New Buyer in Nebraska wanting brand opinions

[DamSam]

Ok, as I said, I am finally starting my serious search for Hot Tubs. But this is allot worse than I thought.
 I have always wanted one but never pulled the trigger. Now it is time and I am on the hunt.
I am starting to realize the value of getting a good one vs. craigslist or "Big Box" brands that are 1/2 the price (initially). I am a firm believer in value / get what you pay for / and inexpensive vs. cheap. So I may have to bite the bullet and fess up a little more money.
My requirements for what I want and want it for may help you help me.
- Wanted to pay les than $4K but that seems unreasonable so hoping for the $5 to (Max)$6k range.
- Want a tub that is for 4-5 people, around 300-350gal,  aprox  85"x85"x36" deep.
- Unobstructed seating but I do like the one lounger (flatter style so it can be used kinda like a cooling bench).
- Textured surface
- Two pumps. One for jet and one for circulation.
- 220v since I live in Nebraska, it gets cold and it will be located outside.
- I want one that I can move without fear of failure. Recently retired military so I probably will not stay in NE much longer.
- Want one I do not have to have on a concrete pad. EZ-pad (or equivalent) or wood frame will be used so when I move, I will not have to remove a concrete pad or dig up gravel/paver base.

I think all this is possible and if not then maybe I will need to delay my dream longer.
A few brands I am interested in are Bullfrog-R6L (but no dealers close) / then there is Hot Springs - Rhythm or Relax / but then I also liked the Lazyboy - Relieve or Revive but I have seen a few people say no way to Lazyboy... Why? it was very comfortable (Dry) and seems to have good insulation / warranty.

So after reading all this, what are your thoughts. DISCLAIMER!!! I am asking for your constructive criticism and suggestions. I agree with another poster I read here. I do not need you to bash other brands, sell me yours! If there is a legitimate issue, please tell me facts. So please give me your thoughts and suggestions.

Thanks... Sam

[Isaac-1]

I started out shopping for a hot tub a couple of months ago roughly on the same budget as your looking, I live in the middle of nowhere (west central Louisiana for me), so the nearest real dealers that keep more than 1 tub in stock are 50-70 miles away.  In my case I was looking for something a little smaller, as it will usually just be me in the tub, as my wife has a condition where she has to avoid being over heated.  It was not long before I found that $5-6,000 would mean second tier products, or getting really lucky on clearance, etc first tier, so being a fairly handy DIY type, I started looking at the used market, as I knew if I depended on dealer support for maintenance in my area then I would be greatly limiting my options.  As chance would have it after only a couple of weeks of shopping I found a nice looking older (1998) Hot Springs Jetsetter for $1,000 which seems to have fit my needs nicely, at a price of less than 1/4 of my original budget (including the cost of installation and minor maintenance, new circulation pump, and new ozonator).  Along the way I spotted a surpising number of other nice used tubs, some before I bought mine, but mostly after I had my deal in place, but before pickup.  These included a 3-4 year old Bullfrog (R7 I think) for $3,500, a fairly nice looking  indoor kept 1997 HS Sovereign for $1,200, another 2007 Sovereign, also for $1,200 (this one looked like it had been outdoors its whole life), and just this week a 2013 HS Jetsetter for $3,000 (new cost $6,500) this last one sold within about 4 or 5 days of being listed online.  All of these tubs were listed in the last 30-40 days, and all within 150 miles of me, and this does not count the junk that was out there.

[DamSam]

Do not get me wrong. I have not discounted craigslist all together, it is just hard to find a decent one. Plus usually the good ones get gone ASAP.
Glad to hear you found a good one though. I'm still on the hunt.

[Hottubguy]

I think your biggest obstacle is going to be the price you want to pay.  None of those tubs you like will be priced below $6K.  I will skip Bullfrog becuse I don't know much about them.  Hot Spring makes a great tub.  Full foam insulation for those cold Nebraska winters so you might want to look at the hot spot line.  Those tubs can be had in the 6k range.  Lazy Boy makes a very comfortable tub.  It doesn't have very good insulation though and is usually priced very high.  I thoink the reason most don't like that particular brand is bercause it has been passed on to manufacturer after manufacturer.  It was previously made by tatum who was known for making cheap and unreliable products.  They went bankrupt.  It is currently made by Hydropool in Canada who is a respected hot tub manufacturer.  My biggest complaint on that tub is more on there higher end side where the costs are outrageous for what you get plus there warranty doesn't stack up to any of the other major manufacturers.  Some of the really good "value" tubs to look at would be either Nordic or Viking.  Each of those would have a plethora of options in your price range.  Happy hunting

[rosewoodsteel]

DamSam,
When I first thought of replacing my old Coleman, I figured I could pick up a nice tub in the price range that you have mentioned.    That went by the wayside fast....    I also found out how the options (tv, stereo, fancy lighting system, etc) jacked up prices considerably.   Since I don't really care for those things, it was easy for me not to get side tracked.    One of the manufacturers I liked, was Bullfrog.   I believe they are a good company with a good product.   The tub I ultimately purchased, though, was the Artic Klondiker.    I, for one, prefer the perimeter insulation, for a number of reasons.
   
Keep on researching and I'm sure you will find the tub that is right for you.

[Isaac-1]

If looking online I would suggest searching daily, and checking not only craigslist, but ebay, oodle, bookoo, etc.  (searchtempest is also good at looking at craigslist in neighboring areas)

[Hottubprosne]

Where are you located in nebraska.

[DamSam]

Where are you located in nebraska.

I live in Bellevue, NE. I would love to talk with a Hot Springs dealer that I cannot deal with send me a personal message. I have three questions for you if you have a few minutes to spare.

[DamSam]

I have found a few good sounding tubs on craigslist. They seem litigate but by the time I drive two hours there check it out, dive another two hours home, rent a trailer then do it again. I would be looking at 8 to 10 hours travel then trailer rental the I would have to get helpers. This project may just have to wait. I know my top dollar and not gonna settle for less than I want. Really close but not quite there yet. 

[DamSam]

Any Hot Spring (Hot Spot only) / Caldera / Lazy-Boy dealers willing to contact me? I want to see if I am getting a good deal where to bargain at. The problem is, there seems to be no standard. Amongst dealers and regions. I am not looking to rip off anyone and I understand completely that a store has to make some money to operate. But I also understand too that if I buy from a store I am more than likely to come back there for supplies and extras. Just like an automobile, I do not expect them to make much if any on the initial sell, it is all the stuff that gets added later makes up for that.

Some of the ones I am looking at;
Used 06 Bull Frog - reported good condition, 2 hr drive plus I transport/set up - $2,500 (so far this is my best choice I think)
New HS Hot Spot Relay - I would have to get electrician and site prep but $5,900 (tax / set-up / start up chemicals) Is this the best deal I could get?
New Caldera - Vacanza Series - Looks same as Hot Spot but have no quotes yet, waiting on local deal to reply.
I really liked the look of the Lazy boy Revive but was out of budget, next I liked the seating of the Relieve but no price to compare to. Any thoughts?

I do want your inputs but no bashing please! These are the tubs that I think I can walk away (Tax and extras included) with under the 6K mark and still have a quality tub with the features I want. If there is a (affordable) brand I am overlooking, let me know.

Nordic - Did not like the way the seats have a wedge in between each seat
Bull Frog - No dealer in the area
Viking - No dealer but interested on price for "Legend"
Artic - closest dealer is over 2 hr away.

  Banging My Head!

[Hottubguy]

I would stay away from the 06 bullfrog unless you can get it for closer to a $1000.  I'm not all the familiar with them but have heard they make a very good tub now but that's with a number of improvements they have made over the last couple of years.  Back in 06 they didn't have a very good rep at all.  The vacancza series tubs should be comparable to the hot spot price.  That is what they go for so $5900 is right in line with pricing I have heard on them.  It's not reasonable to not expect the dealer ''make much if any on the initial sell"  We are in business to make money not break even.  If I wasn't looking to make money today I would've stayed in bed for the day.  Did you look at the Nordic Escape?  That tub has open seating and if you do the SE line you should be able to get it for closer to $5k.  Pricing on the Lazy boy is what it is, very expensive.  I don't think you can get any bullfrog for $6k but I don't know that for sure

[Isaac-1]

Arctic will sell to you factory direct if you don't have a local dealer, I am not sure how close they consider local to be though.  I looked at them before buying my used Jetsetter a couple of months ago, and qualitfied for direct sale as the nearest dealer was hundreds of miles away.  At the time the prices started around $5,000 for their smaller tubs, not sure if that was delivered or FOB.  They claimed it was at dealer pricing, and was about 20% off MSRP, but I suspect while this may be dealer price, I suspect real dealers get other discounts, kickbacks, rebates, etc.  I think there was also some option of getting cosmetic blemished tubs for another 3% off, which seems like a little too close to full price for my tastes.

Ike

[DamSam]

Thanks Isaac, I just got a quote from a Artic factory direct dealer and the Bare Essential line (I figured their lower end) was still beyond where I need to be.

Hottubguy, I understand that dealers want/need to make money. Everyone I have talked to, I have explained that I understand that they are there to sell and they have to make some money on. I do understand how a "Business" works. What I do not agree with are the extremely overrated mark-ups on the MSRP. There is no real way for a buyer like me to understand how much a tub is actually worth. That is why I am here is to educate myself and hopefully others but not get laughed at or insult someone's worth by lowballing a price. That is why I said they should make a few dollars of the initial, knowing that good customer service and honesty will bring repeat business, word of mouth, trustworthiness, and I will be more likely to go back there for supplies instead of ordering online. Building a long term relationship vs the "Hit it and Quit it" or get as much as you can on the first round, like some of the dealers I have met. I am not the only one that sees this. One post I read here, someone asked an opinion about a tub and another person asked if it was lined in gold! That is why so many people here ask these questions. At least with automobiles you have the availability to look up the Kelly Blue Book (or equivalent) value to see and compare too. I have looked and looked but have not found a source that racks and stacks tubs and gives price comparisons or even a high-low range.
I have a max I am willing to pay and I know what I want. As I stated previously, I may just be better off waiting for what I want instead of settling or until I find the right pre-owned. It just sucks that I have nothing to compare to, to know if I am getting a "good" deal or "suckered".

[Hottubguy]

Arctic will sell to you factory direct if you don't have a local dealer, I am not sure how close they consider local to be though.  I looked at them before buying my used Jetsetter a couple of months ago, and qualitfied for direct sale as the nearest dealer was hundreds of miles away.  At the time the prices started around $5,000 for their smaller tubs, not sure if that was delivered or FOB.  They claimed it was at dealer pricing, and was about 20% off MSRP, but I suspect while this may be dealer price, I suspect real dealers get other discounts, kickbacks, rebates, etc.  I think there was also some option of getting cosmetic blemished tubs for another 3% off, which seems like a little too close to full price for my tastes.

Ike

Dealers don't get kickbacks, rebates or any other discount.  We all pretty much pay the same for which ever product we are selling.  The only difference is the shipping

[Hottubguy]

Thanks Isaac, I just got a quote from a Artic factory direct dealer and the Bare Essential line (I figured their lower end) was still beyond where I need to be.

Hottubguy, I understand that dealers want/need to make money. Everyone I have talked to, I have explained that I understand that they are there to sell and they have to make some money on. I do understand how a "Business" works. What I do not agree with are the extremely overrated mark-ups on the MSRP. There is no real way for a buyer like me to understand how much a tub is actually worth. That is why I am here is to educate myself and hopefully others but not get laughed at or insult someone's worth by lowballing a price. That is why I said they should make a few dollars of the initial, knowing that good customer service and honesty will bring repeat business, word of mouth, trustworthiness, and I will be more likely to go back there for supplies instead of ordering online. Building a long term relationship vs the "Hit it and Quit it" or get as much as you can on the first round, like some of the dealers I have met. I am not the only one that sees this. One post I read here, someone asked an opinion about a tub and another person asked if it was lined in gold! That is why so many people here ask these questions. At least with automobiles you have the availability to look up the Kelly Blue Book (or equivalent) value to see and compare too. I have looked and looked but have not found a source that racks and stacks tubs and gives price comparisons or even a high-low range.
I have a max I am willing to pay and I know what I want. As I stated previously, I may just be better off waiting for what I want instead of settling or until I find the right pre-owned. It just sucks that I have nothing to compare to, to know if I am getting a "good" deal or "suckered".

If you are dealing with a hot tub only company the only 2 ways to make money are on the service end and the hot tub purchase.  Dealers don't make much on the chemical side unless they can do a huge volume.  The prices you have gotten are fair on the hot spot.  You can search throughout this site and see what other people pay.  Fortunately for me my main business is new pool construction so I can price my hot tubs accordingly but at the end of the day if I'm not making money on them I'd rather not sell them