2013 HS Grandee W/ ACE Salt Progress Real Life results

[dunecritter]

This thread was not started to "Convert" nor "Sell you"...A simple progress report on my ACE System. Because there are genuine curious onlookers and I'll post the results for them. Take it for what its worth...appreciate it or don't. Simple guys. But I don't care to hear it's no good or it doesn't work from people with no real life personal experience. So start your own thread telling people why YOU wouldn't want the ace system and how happy you are keeping things just as they have been since the first day a hot tub was built....By the way...Have you heard they actually put a man on the moon? WOW! Crazy how things change over time huh??? Same guy drives around in his ol truck or car and says look at that idiot in that POS Bently or Vette...Not worth the money he says... Then that guy  blows by you with a smile on his face....Some people will pay for convenience if it works...Simple as that. I did and so far will do it again.

[Jacuzzi Jim]

It's what happens!   You post something like that and you are going to get "opinions" like it or not,  it is an open forum after all.   If you don't want any of us to reply and wait for some happy go lucky person to come along looking for info on it and read it, that's fine they might.  But don't get all worked up and what not when people that have been around here a lot longer, and in the industry longer then give their thoughts on the matter.  You actually might gain something from it.
   I get what your saying its just your own review, what I hear is a sales pitch from a salesman.   Same thing I thought when I read your first post and said what I said.  Turned out I was right.     I see you posted in the review section, it's a good place for just that kind of post and you won't have to worry about us raining on your parade or kicking you off the soap box...
 
  I honestly I am on pins and needles waiting to hear your review of no by-pass filtration.  Been quite ahwile since we discussed that one.   Of course there were way more people around here then,  the neighborhood has seemed to go down hill lately. 

[rosewoodsteel]

Dune,

I am very interested to see how the salt system works for you.   When I bought my spa, there were many options I could have purchased. Each brought up the price of the hot tub considerably, so I chose only the extras that I really wanted.
One that was offered to me was Artic's, salt system.   Here is the spiel I received from my salesman, a great guy by the way:
 
Onzen Salt Water system
The Onzen™ Salt Water System is Arctic Spas® proprietary salt water system that produces sanitizer from naturally sourced Dead Sea salts through electrolysis. Salt-water sanitizer generation has several advantages over traditional sanitizer methods. Firstly, sanitizer is created, rather than added to the system and so there is very little on-going cost related to this system. The sanitizer that is created is of a pure form and therefore is quite free of residual, resulting in much longer water lifespan. The resulting spa water is much more gentle to skin and eyes, and has a similar salinity to a human tear. Onzen™ has many unique features that have overcome previous challenges tied to salt water systems for spas. The first is that Onzen has a user-replaceable electrode cartridge. Electrolysis is a sacrificial process by definition – the electrodes will eventually deteriorate and require replacement. The replacement of the Onzen titanium electrode cartridge is a simple and inexpensive maintenance item that does not require the hot tub to be drained. The second key feature of Onzen is the ability to control the system either from the topside control, or via the Arctic Spas® Smart Phone App. This user adjustment can be used to match the sanitizer output of the Onzen system to the current, or anticipated bather load.
The use of the Onzen Salt Water system can significantly reduce the effort required to maintain clear and safe spa water, but we do suggest adding the Peak I or II ozone systems as well to maximize the benefit of the Onzen Salt Water system.
______
The "Dead Sea Salt" diatribe was a bit for me to handle...
In the end, I decided not to step forward with it, although it was half the price mentioned here .

I am interested in seeing how effective and reliable a system like this is, and may be interested in adding it in the future, so keep up the good work!   

[meriflower]

Sorry Dune!  I hope you keep us posted as I am more interested in the longevity as salt is corrosive no matter what form.  I am all for making things easier, no smells, etc but not if I have to keep replacing things.  I am als not a dealer and do not have access to discounted or free service/parts.  I found out that Sundance used a salt system (ISO Pure System) in their tubs back in 1999 but discontinued it.

[dunecritter]

Well Its been awhile since I've had a chance to hop in the tub (almost 2 weeks as I painted my home as I  have been bzy with that and work) and I intentionally did nothing with it regarding to even opening the cover during this time. Well yesterday I opened the cover and tested my water with regular test strips and as expected...water was good...still clear with absolutely no smells to speak of...once tested I noticed the sanitizer levels were perfect and the softness was good but like normal.. The PH and Alk has creped up and required a touch of PH down to get it  back in range. That's it, so far so good. I have yet to clean my cell (Manufacture recommends every 3 months and I'm at 5 months now) so I decided to dip the cell in a PH Down solution for a 10 Min and was surprised to see no bubbles from the cleaning process. I looked down the cell and I cannot see any deposit buildup on it yet so maybe It will be more necessary as the cell gets aged with more time/use in the water. One annoying thing as this was the first time cleaning the cell and I put too much water in the PH solution bottle so when I submerged the cell I had excess spillage...so I quickly grabbed the hose to dilute the solution. Clearly a rookie mistake that won't happen again.

[chem geek]

I'm glad the system is working out well for you.  There have been a few posts in this thread that I'd like to comment on.

First, the Hot Spring® ACE® Saltwater Sanitizing System is not just a saltwater chlorine generator so can't really be compared directly with those.  Because of its boron-doped diamond electrodes, it generates not only chlorine but also hydroxyl radicals and other active oxygen species (as dunecritter noted).  Ozone from an ozonator breaks down to produce hydroxyl radicals so in some ways one can see the ACE® system as a combination of a saltwater chlorine generator with an ozonator.

Second, it is not exactly true that bromine is more stable in hot water or more effective at higher pH.  These statements are only true when chlorine is used in the water with no Cyanuric Acid (CYA).  If there is CYA present, such as from the use of Dichlor, then this significantly lowers the active chlorine level reducing its rate of outgassing so that it lasts longer and it also buffers the active chlorine (hypochlorous acid) level against a change in pH.  With no CYA in the water, going from a pH of 7.5 to 8.0 lowers the active chlorine level by 50%, but with 30-40 ppm CYA in the water the active chlorine level only drops by 15% (of course, it's also starting from a much lower level).

For the ACE® system or for any saltwater chlorine generator, it would be a good idea to use a small amount of CYA in the water (again, 30-40 ppm is reasonable) as this will lower the active chlorine level so that it oxidizes swimsuits, skin and hair more slowly, outgases more slowly, degrades hot tub covers more slowly, etc.  3 ppm FC with 30 ppm CYA even at hot 104ºF temperature has the same active chlorine level as 0.5 ppm FC with no CYA.  You can, of course, try and maintain a very low FC level, but that's hard to do.  It's easier to use CYA and let it buffer the chlorine level for you.  The initial use of Dichlor when starting out added some CYA, but the CYA likely gets broken down over time where in a manually dosed hot tub using bleach the CYA loss is around 5 ppm per month.  I don't know the loss rate in an ACE® hot tub.

Finally, you have minimal buildup on your plates due to keeping the CH low per ACE® instructions and the use of their Vanishing Act™ Calcium Remover, but for those who still have a problem the use of 50 ppm borates (usually added from boric acid) will not only slow down the rate of pH rise, but it will lower the rise in pH at the hydrogen gas generation plate by roughly half so helps prevent scaling.

There is a thread on another hot tub forum (not sure if I'm allowed to link to it so I won't unless someone official from this site says it's OK) that has reports from 13 ACE® owners plus dealer reports who have installed hundreds of them plus info from a Hot Springs® representative as well.  The main problem is cells going out and this happened more frequently in earlier units.  The majority of installations are without incident, but some people have cells go out in 6 months or a year.  This doesn't seem to only be due to scaling as some owners were diligent about keeping calcium levels low and pH and TA in line.

[dunecritter]

There is a thread on another hot tub forum (not sure if I'm allowed to link to it so I won't unless someone official from this site says it's OK) that has reports from 13 ACE® owners plus dealer report who have installed hundreds of them plus info from an Hot Springs® representative as well.  The main problem is cells going out and this happened more frequently in earlier units.  The majority of installations are without incident, but some people have cells go out in 6 months or a year.  This doesn't seem to only be due to scaling as some owners were diligent about keeping calcium levels low and pH and TA in line.

I do not belong to any other Hot Tub forums nor have I searched for any other results else where other than on this forum. Chem Geek...Your a pleather of water wisdom and your input is appreciated.
So far so good...5 months now I have had excellent results with my ACE system and have followed the manufactures suggestions very closely other than stretching my cell cleaning two months over due. The only thing that I can see myself doing differently in the future as Chem Geek has already suggested earlier in this thread is the use of CYA to help with keeping the PH from rising so readily and the help with minimizing outgas. But for now I am testing the system as Hot Spring suggests to all users as this is how most will maintain theirs and I will know with my own personal experiences all good and bad (if any). I will admit that this is the longest I have ever stretched my water before feeling that It needed to be changed and for the simple fact that I let my tub go 2 weeks without any manual attention what so ever is great. My water truly looks, smells, no foaming and feels like it was just filled. I have had many soaks in it without adding one ounce of bottled sanitizer yet. I have only added PH down a handful of times over the past 5 months to my water and I really am loving it so far. I have not yet "Boosted" my cell and I am not going to unless I have a large group sitting in my Tub. If my cell lasts the estimated 3 plus years...Id buy it again without hesitation and as bzy as I get...Even if didn't Id buy it again regardless as My time is worth more to me (That's just me and my laziness)...Besides, It keeps my water soak ready at all times even If I was unable to add chemicals to a "Normal" bottled chlorine system and that's the best part. I will keep posting with future results.

[kurt6137]

I have a question for you Dunecritter, I have a 2013 Hot Springs Sovereign, that I do not have the salt system, it runs great, but i chose not having the salt system, due to the fact it was so new and chlorine definitely works and no issues to deal with like problems with hardware and running the system. My question, can I add a salt system to my Sovereign down the road, if I like and how hard is it to install, could I do it myself ?  I don't think, I would want to, due to the fact , if it breaks, probably is not covered, let me know, thanks Kurt.

[d00nut]

I have a question for you Dunecritter, I have a 2013 Hot Springs Sovereign, that I do not have the salt system, it runs great, but i chose not having the salt system, due to the fact it was so new and chlorine definitely works and no issues to deal with like problems with hardware and running the system. My question, can I add a salt system to my Sovereign down the road, if I like and how hard is it to install, could I do it myself ?  I don't think, I would want to, due to the fact , if it breaks, probably is not covered, let me know, thanks Kurt.

You can get the ACE system back to 2010 HSS models.  If you go before that, I believe there is a retrofit kit that goes back to 2006 or 2004... I can't remember.

You can install them yourself, as it's pretty easy.  However, check the warranty just in case.  As dunecritter has alluded to, make sure you start up right and you will have awesome success with the system!

[dunecritter]

Creeping up on six months soon and still have Awesome results...I'm still amazed by the Ace water care...I've read recent posts about some people having issues with their Ace systems and just not sure what to think about their issues? Are they using it correctly? Have they been properly instructed on how to operate the Ace system on their tub? ...My partner has his Ace system going on 7 months now and feels exactly the same as I do with excellent results...I hope the system holds up as I have very high hopes for it.  But my water is absolutely awesome and I'm not adding any bottled sanitizers or chemicals other than balancing my PH with PH Down a few times. So far so good!

[Ryan VSO]

Those Products are great when use corectly

[Sam]

..... I'm not adding any bottled sanitizers or chemicals other than balancing my PH with PH Down a few times. So far so good!

Adding bottled sanitizers takes all of 10 seconds and you don't have to regularly clean the cell or spend the initial $1,500 for the system.  Why do people act like hot tub water care is so difficult and time consuming?

[dunecritter]

..... I'm not adding any bottled sanitizers or chemicals other than balancing my PH with PH Down a few times. So far so good!

Adding bottled sanitizers takes all of 10 seconds and you don't have to regularly clean the cell or spend the initial $1,500 for the system.  Why do people act like hot tub water care is so difficult and time consuming?

Because going to the garage to get the chemicals after each and every soak, Running the clean cycle after every time I add chemicals to properly mix in the system, Shocking with Bottled chlorine every week, Replacing a Silver Ion Cartridge every 4 months at $35 bucks a wack, and having to smell the nasty chlorine and not having the smooth and silky water like I have now with the salt system.....SUCKS!!! ABSOLUTELY SUCKS!  I don't ever have to worry about "Shocking my tub" I can basically forget about it for a month or better at a time and still have bath ready water right now every time. That's why....Not to mention that I'm going on 6 month old water that looks, Smells and feels as great as the water did the day I put it in....No more 3 month water changing for me....You may enjoy that maintenance schedule Sam....I don't.

[dunecritter]

I have a question for you Dunecritter, I have a 2013 Hot Springs Sovereign, that I do not have the salt system, it runs great, but i chose not having the salt system, due to the fact it was so new and chlorine definitely works and no issues to deal with like problems with hardware and running the system. My question, can I add a salt system to my Sovereign down the road, if I like and how hard is it to install, could I do it myself ?  I don't think, I would want to, due to the fact , if it breaks, probably is not covered, let me know, thanks Kurt.

Hey Kurt, You can certainly install the ACE system on your 2013 Sovereign at any time yourself...The directions are very clear and simple. Installing it yourself really is easy and if you need any help....The forum is great to help answer any questions. BTW...Install takes all if 15-20 min is all. I have installed many and you can PM me if you ever needed any help.

[Tman122]

Well Its been awhile since I've had a chance to hop in the tub (almost 2 weeks as I painted my home as I  have been bzy with that and work) and I intentionally did nothing with it regarding to even opening the cover during this time. Well yesterday I opened the cover and tested my water with regular test strips and as expected...water was good...still clear with absolutely no smells to speak of...once tested I noticed the sanitizer levels were perfect and the softness was good but like normal.. The PH and Alk has creped up and required a touch of PH down to get it  back in range. That's it, so far so good. I have yet to clean my cell (Manufacture recommends every 3 months and I'm at 5 months now) so I decided to dip the cell in a PH Down solution for a 10 Min and was surprised to see no bubbles from the cleaning process. I looked down the cell and I cannot see any deposit buildup on it yet so maybe It will be more necessary as the cell gets aged with more time/use in the water. One annoying thing as this was the first time cleaning the cell and I put too much water in the PH solution bottle so when I submerged the cell I had excess spillage...so I quickly grabbed the hose to dilute the solution. Clearly a rookie mistake that won't happen again.
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Get yourself a re-agent test kit bud. Learn how to use it. 10 people can look at strips and get a different reading. Scoop a little water and go do it in your kitchen by the sink