What's the Best Hot Tub

Author Topic: MSRP  (Read 37772 times)

Tman122

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Re: MSRP
« Reply #60 on: December 16, 2013, 06:26:48 pm »
You did not answered the questions and the price difference would be that much.

I told you what I would be willing to pay for.
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Re: MSRP
« Reply #60 on: December 16, 2013, 06:26:48 pm »

rosewoodsteel

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Re: MSRP
« Reply #61 on: December 17, 2013, 10:07:40 am »
I don't like.....But I would pay more to sit in it and see if it was right for me. And.....pay more to have it delivered and set up.....also would pay more for the warranty available from a dealer.....

Tman, when you state your opinion of what you like or don't like, it is based upon what you know and don't know, which in this case leaves the spa shopper at a disadvantage.  While we all want to get the most for the money we spend, some look to shop and learn from all of the resources available, like this website, to make their decisions.  That is certainly understandable.

However, based upon what the shopper knows, they will "shop around" to become informed by a variety of opinions, and sit in everybody else’s spa free for nothing until they feel determined “they are all alike". 

Then they save the money to enter uncharted territory to learn about delivery, set up, and reading the manufactures hand book that tells them where the equipment is, and what is not covered by the warranty.  This, as you have learned, is a learning experience.

As for warranty, shoppers never anticipate the need to arise, and only imagine that it will be covered, until again they deal with the situation in what we will call a learning experience.  These experiences are filled with frustration that we commonly see addressed here on the forum.

Because the savings of let's say $2,500 in this discussion being the primary focus, we would all want to save that kind of money.  But this is where I get confused, is the shopper trying to find out what we make on a sale in hopes of making it less when he buys, or is he trying to convince himself that buying direct form Ching-Ling Direct, or the Cost not so much warehouse, that they are really on to a better way to get into hot water cheaper.  This again will be a learning experience.

To some level, we are all self sufficient, and then we need help.  I applaud those who are able to fend for themselves, in spite of the cost to others they do not even care about, for their own self serving interests.  I suppose we have all done this sometime in our life, but many of us consider these to be lessons learned.

To some, we have a value, and those would be our customers, to others, we don't have value and that is what they want to take out of the price.  This too is a learning experience.

I admire adventuresome, rugged, individualists that thrive in the Alaska wilderness, but I have no interest in being a survivalist in my suburban setting.  In my younger years, many decades ago, I once changed my own oil to save the money, and because “I felt” I could do it myself, only to cross thread the drain plug going back in.  Everything that happened after that was a learning experience for me.

Thats good stuff. We did a Value Stream Map on an oil change (Google Value Stream Map) And it costs 50% less to have it done at an 39.95 oil change place than it does to do it yourself. Assuming you put a value to your time. And we like to double the value of our time because we could of been doing something else.

Sorry, I can’t buy into this at all.   My experience with auto repair shops and oil change places is that I waste more time taking my car to them and then waiting (and waiting and waiting), than it takes me to do the actual work myself. And this doesn’t even take into account the time I would miss from my job for these service appointments.   Regarding oil changes, I buy the oil I want to use and use top of the line filters (not some generic brand).   I purchase in bulk and have the supplies in my garage.   It takes just a few minutes to change.

    Talking about this reminds me of an old friend of mine who took her new car to a “Jiffy Lube” type place, many years ago, for an oil change.    After picking up her car and driving a few miles, her engine locked up.     It seems the pimply faced kid doing the work, neglected to secure the oil pan plug and/or didn’t snug up the filter.    My friend ended up settling for an engine rebuild from them (against my advice, I might add). 
 
Regarding charging for your “own” time..     Really?   I wish someone would send me a check for my time off (perhaps with the Dems in office… ).   

clover

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Re: MSRP
« Reply #62 on: December 17, 2013, 11:50:32 am »
Rosewood, this is taking us off subject, but I think you’re missing the point.  Consider for a moment the “value” of your time, and then factor that cost to “what” you do with your time.  Whether you are changing your oil, or shopping for a spa, you are using your time.

Tman is only suggesting, if you include the “value” of your time into the equation of what you do, you are creating a cost analysis.  This is one step in reaching the answer of what it cost YOU to do something.  You’re not going to get a check, nor will you get your value back, but that is presumably what it cost you to do something theoretically.

The example used for a $40 oil change, is to say if you did it yourself, the cost of materials, the value of your time for preparation, application, and clean up, putting everything away which includes “your time”, it would take longer then a drive through oil change that would take 20 minutes for $40.

Consider the cost of the 5 quarts, the filter, and the time it takes to check all of the other points of service, then clean up everything, and total the cost, or value, of your time, you are more than twice the cost of the $40.  It is just a theory.

As for your friend’s calamity, the “dealer” paid for the repairs because he touched it.  Now, you may better understand why a Hot Tub Dealer would not want to touch a product he is not familiar with that was purchased elsewhere by an orphan.   Based upon your response, it would appear you would not be satisfied with repairs, as you may demand it be replaced instead.

The time we spend on the decisions we make, is considered diligence, and you sir, are diligent in what you do.  While I do not wish to demean this quality, you seem to be more focused on the portion of your Hot Tub purchase that profits the dealer, and you feel the need to cut it out of the equation and keep it in your pocket.  Of course, this is your prerogative, but is it wise.
Trying to be the unbaised voice of reason.

rosewoodsteel

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Re: MSRP
« Reply #63 on: December 17, 2013, 12:24:55 pm »
Clover,

Actually, I'll say it again, the tub I want can not be supplied by a local dealer.  My intention was not to cut out the local dealer.  I want this particular tub.   The savings are an ancillary benifit.

clover

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Re: MSRP
« Reply #64 on: December 17, 2013, 12:49:08 pm »
I understood that.  So there are no local dealers with a viable product that you would consider, because you like what you found elsewhere.  Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and we are wasting time talking about this.  You should be sitting in that tub tonight with your significant other, looking at the full moon as the snow falls, with maybe a glass of wine.  Get it on order, use and enjoy

No decision is a bad decision, it is just the price we pay to make it a good decision.  We all wish you the best, it is the Hot Water that is the same in all tubs.
Trying to be the unbaised voice of reason.

Tman122

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Re: MSRP
« Reply #65 on: December 17, 2013, 06:12:46 pm »
Rosewood, this is taking us off subject, but I think you’re missing the point.  Consider for a moment the “value” of your time, and then factor that cost to “what” you do with your time.  Whether you are changing your oil, or shopping for a spa, you are using your time.

Tman is only suggesting, if you include the “value” of your time into the equation of what you do, you are creating a cost analysis.  This is one step in reaching the answer of what it cost YOU to do something.  You’re not going to get a check, nor will you get your value back, but that is presumably what it cost you to do something theoretically.

The example used for a $40 oil change, is to say if you did it yourself, the cost of materials, the value of your time for preparation, application, and clean up, putting everything away which includes “your time”, it would take longer then a drive through oil change that would take 20 minutes for $40.

Consider the cost of the 5 quarts, the filter, and the time it takes to check all of the other points of service, then clean up everything, and total the cost, or value, of your time, you are more than twice the cost of the $40.  It is just a theory.

As for your friend’s calamity, the “dealer” paid for the repairs because he touched it.  Now, you may better understand why a Hot Tub Dealer would not want to touch a product he is not familiar with that was purchased elsewhere by an orphan.   Based upon your response, it would appear you would not be satisfied with repairs, as you may demand it be replaced instead.

The time we spend on the decisions we make, is considered diligence, and you sir, are diligent in what you do.  While I do not wish to demean this quality, you seem to be more focused on the portion of your Hot Tub purchase that profits the dealer, and you feel the need to cut it out of the equation and keep it in your pocket.  Of course, this is your prerogative, but is it wise.

So you buy in bulk. Have you considered the interest on your money as the product sits on the shelf? Or the price per square footage to store the product. Have you also considered the time it takes to drive to the store find it bring it to the counter and spend the money your not charging yourself for. Then getting it home and storing it. Inventory is always waste.

You don't have to agree. You'll be wrong if you think you can do it cheaper yourself.
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rosewoodsteel

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Re: MSRP
« Reply #66 on: December 17, 2013, 07:26:22 pm »
Tman,
Are you serious?

Have you seen what interest rate your bank is currently paying?

When I say "bulk" I mean I get a case or so of oil.   I buy multiple filters on line from Amazon (no waiting in line, here...).
I store everything, quite easily on the shelves I have in my garage.  There is no premium on storage space at my house.

But ok, I’ll play this game.   If I were to get my oil changed at a “Jiffy Lube”, I would have to drive 7 miles, wait in line to hand over my keys,  wait in the waiting room for the oil to be changed, wait in line to pay and then drive 7 miles back home.

If I wanted to do it right, I would take my car to my “dealer” (which is approximately 35 minutes away) and drop the car off.  Of course, my wife would have to follow me in her car (2 xs the hours spent, not to mention the gasoline and “wear and tear” on both vehicles.)  The following day, both of us would return to pick up my serviced vehicle and then we would drive home.   
If I were to do the oil change myself, I would grab a cup of coffee, walk into my garage, jack my car up and change the oil.

In the real world, most of us don’t have an unlimited “bucket” of paid labor hours we can tap into any time we have someone else do maintenance for us.  So, I do not agree with the basic premise of the “Oil Change” scenario, as it was presented here.      And, since I do not receive payment for work I do around the house, including the service performed on our vehicles, I find it unrealistic to add in an hourly wage for the “actual” cost of this work.  In fact, I believe my “do it yourself” oil change is very much cost effective, not only in the money spent, but in time expended.

However,   If I were an owner of a business, and perhaps this is where the crux of our differences lie, I could (and would) spend more time at my business, earning money, while someone else was doing work for me.     In that case, it would be well worth my while to have someone else take care of my home and automotive maintenance. 

To sum it up, for the most part, I enjoy doing my own work and I get a sense of accomplishment from it.   And, when I finish doing the work, I can ease my aching muscles, soaking in a hot tub, which is why I have been asking all of you good folks, all of my inane questions. 

Hottubguy

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Re: MSRP
« Reply #67 on: December 17, 2013, 08:52:37 pm »
How come you haven't bought the tub yet?

Tman122

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Re: MSRP
« Reply #68 on: December 18, 2013, 05:50:03 am »
If I wanted to do it right, I would take my car to my “dealer” (which is approximately 35 minutes away) and drop the car off.  Of course, my wife would have to follow me in her car (2 xs the hours spent, not to mention the gasoline and “wear and tear” on both vehicles.)  The following day, both of us would return to pick up my serviced vehicle and then we would drive home.   
If I were to do the oil change myself, I would grab a cup of coffee, walk into my garage, jack my car up and change the oil.

There are ways to skeew it to your favor in words. Are you in sales?

How about doing it on your way home from work and not having to wait in line. And picking up dinner across the street while you wait. And a 29.99 sale.

You forgot to mention a second trip to get rid of your used oil and filter. And the plastic garbage created from the quart oil jugs.

You don't have to buy into it. There are loads of people who don't.

I saved up all the time saved by not changing my own oil and went to the Caribbean.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 05:52:09 am by Tman122 »
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rosewoodsteel

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Re: MSRP
« Reply #69 on: December 18, 2013, 08:58:25 am »
I have a couple of 5 gallon containers (in my shed) that I store the used oil in.   Twice a year I swing by the recycling place on my way to buy new oil.   When it is needed, I strain some of the used oil thru coffee filters and use it as a bar lube for my chain saw.
Most of my commuting is via rail road train, and I don't pass any service places during my commute home. 
And no, I am not in sales.

rosewoodsteel

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Re: MSRP
« Reply #70 on: December 18, 2013, 01:30:15 pm »
 I saved up all the time saved by not changing my own oil and went to the Caribbean.
[/quote]

You must be pretty darn slow at changing oil. :)   

Tman122

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Re: MSRP
« Reply #71 on: December 18, 2013, 05:41:55 pm »
I saved up all the time saved by not changing my own oil and went to the Caribbean.

You must be pretty darn slow at changing oil. :)
[/quote]

No I bought a Chevy Duramax in 2004 and it has 220,000 miles on it and has needed 44 oil changes so far. Each one takes an hour and a half when you figure in picking up oil, disposing of old oil and cleaning up the mess. That's 66 hours and I value myself at 40 bucks per hour with out doubling it which is cheap (we generally use 60 for a plumber). That's 2640 dollars. Plenty for a trip to the Caribbean.

I know your going to say I need to deduct the time I spent at the oil change place. But I also could double both times because I could of been working or relaxing also.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 05:51:10 pm by Tman122 »
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rosewoodsteel

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Re: MSRP
« Reply #72 on: December 18, 2013, 10:12:42 pm »
Tman,
 
Perhaps you received a bunch of dividend checks from Jiffy Lube and that's how you financed your vacation? :)
At this point, I think it's safe to say that you and I disagree on this subject.

Tman122

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Re: MSRP
« Reply #73 on: December 19, 2013, 06:20:33 am »
I had about 20 of you in the classroom when I did the value stream map on an oil change. There is still a bunch of them that change there own oil. Not because it's cheaper because they want to and enjoy it. I'm OK with that.
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rosewoodsteel

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Re: MSRP
« Reply #74 on: December 19, 2013, 09:31:57 am »
Tman,

You neglected to say how much it cost you for each oil change.  I believe the Duramax engine has a capacity of about 10 quarts of oil (damn, what an oil hog).    So how much for each oil change were you charged?  How long did it take you to drive to your Dealer, wait for the oil change and then drive back to your home?

Also, unless you service center sent you a check for $2640, I hate to break the news to you, but you didn’t receive a penny for having them change your oil.  You actually spent a lot of your hard earned money.  (And, money is time; the time that you spent earning it.)   The $2640 you have referred to is nothing more than an illusion.

It has been an interesting debate, though, and I appreciate your food for thought on this subject.     That is all I have to say, as I believe we will end up in the “Beating a Dead Horse” section if we continue. :)      Enjoy your day.

Hot Tub Forum

Re: MSRP
« Reply #74 on: December 19, 2013, 09:31:57 am »

 

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