Newbie and my head hurts....

[kcherrix123]

... from all the information out there   We just purchased and set up a Maxx 471 spa and it's our first time owning a spa.  On Friday we filled it to the recommended line then took a water sample up to our local dealer (which is 75 miles away!).  The water initially was 66 degrees.  This is what our water is before we do anything / and where the dealer recommends it should be:

Metals: 0 ppm / 0 ppm
Total Alkalinity: 151 ppm / 80-150 ppm (from working with my pool, I thought the high end of this scale should only be at 120ppm, 150 seems high to me)
pH: 8.1 / 7.2-7.8
Calcium Hardness: 134 ppm / 200-300 ppm
Free Chlorine: 0 ppm / >0.5 ppm

Our spa has an average capacity of 420 gallons.

The dealer recommend the Brilliance chemicals and the Nature II Stick(?) and sent us home with a box of Brilliance chemicals, a second filter, and the Nature II stick.

They told us we needed to do the following steps for start-up:

Add 1 oz. Stain & Scale prevention - wait 1 hour
Add 2 oz. Calcium Hardness Increaser - wait 1 hour and test with Test Strips.  If within desired range...
Add Nature II stick to filter (spa also has a First Filter) and
Add 1 tsp. Chlorinating Powder.

Their additional instructions were to add 1-2 Tb. of Spa Oxidizing Shock after each use (is it 1 or 2?), test weekly with Test Strips and add chemicals as needed and add 1-2 tsp. Chlorinating Powder as needed (how do I know when this is needed?).

So we went home that night and the water had heated to 75 degrees.  We did the first 4 steps to start-up.  We set it to economy mode, closed the cover and let it do it's thing and gave it time to heat to 100.  We waited about 24 hours.  The next night, Saturday, we got in it for the first time.  Originally we had the water set to 100 degrees but that was too hot for me so we lowered it to 98.  We got out after about 30 minutes and added 2 Tb's of Spa Oxidizing Shock as directed, and closed the cover.

We never thought anything about it again until last night, Wednesday night.  My husband came home from a particularly rough day at work, made a drink and put on his swim trunks.  I went out and was going to open the cover and turn on the jets for him.  However, when I opened the cover, I was hit with a bit of a sour smell and the water was very cloudy and had a greenish tint.  When we turned the jets on, it created a layer of foam on the surface of the water.  I broke out the test strips and the chlorine was 0, pH was at 9.0...  Also note, I/we don't wear lotions or powders, I wear my hair up in the tub, and we rinse our bathing suits after each use and washing so there should not have been too much residual oils/lotions/detergents in the spa.

We have no idea what to do now.  After some reading I went online and ordered clarifier and pH reducer (both from Brilliance), but at this point we really aren't sure what to do next.

I have a huge Taylor test kit for our pool and I'm thinking I need to drain the tub, rinse it out and the filters, and start from scratch using our test kit to retest the pre-balanced water, then following Brilliance guidelines to re-start/balance the water.  The test strips are a joke.  However, Brilliance has no instructions of how to modify dosage for the Nature II stick if at all and I no longer trust what the dealer told me?

Any advice on what our next step should be, or how to modify the chemical dosing for use with the Nature II would be greatly appreciated.

[Spoiledrotten]

My TA stays at around 150 and I've been advised not to worry too much about that level.

[chem geek]

What your dealer is recommending for water chemistry ranges for a spa is absolutely ridiculous and risky since the high end of the range for pH, TA and CH would have a saturation index of +0.7 at 104ºF and would be even higher at the gas heater so the risk of getting calcium carbonate scaling is very high.  Also, the high TA makes it more likely for the pH to get too high unless one used very acidic sources of disinfectant or oxidizer.  The low end of their ranges has a saturation index of -0.3 so they are giving an awfully broad range of values with absolutely no understanding of what causes scaling.

Generally for a spa, 80 ppm TA is more appropriate when using standard chemicals in the spa (e.g. Dichlor, MPS, bromine tabs) since the aeration from the jets will tend to have the pH rise.  If you find the pH tends to drop, you can raise the TA somewhat.  The CH should not normally be more than around 150 ppm and that is usually all that is needed to prevent foaming.  With these numbers, try and have the pH be near 7.5.

[bob snader]

It's not uncommon to see foaming on a new tub.... all the oils and such left over from the factory. Rinse, empty, refill. You may have to do this a few times. The cloudy water usually results from chlorine levels zeroing out before it gets to complete its job. As for chemicals, I agree as above... silliness.

I remember when I first started hot tubbing. I came home with a million dollars worth of chemical which was all highly recommend as a must, and I should test the water often. What a pile of rubbish. Granted I have been blessed with reasonably neutral  tap water. The only issue is low hardness which I don't even worry about or bother adjusting for anymore, but one tends to over treat and overshoot with constant water testing

As for chemicals used, generally speaking less is more, and treat only with additional chemical (ie: stain/scale treatments and such) if you start to see a specific need for it. I throw 1/2 a cup of dichlor (may be different for you given the size of the tub) at fill time and treat it with a Tsp a day after that (a bit more after some one soaks)... just enough to keep the level somewhere between 3 and 5 ppm (that part is important). I test the water once a week. Shock about every 2 weeks and maybe once a month or so I have to treat for high/low Alk, but that's about it. Don't bother with any of these other "highly recommended" chemicals anymore.

[TwinCitiesHotSpring]

water isn't bad at all...skip the calcium booster, your current level is fine...add a couple ounces of pH reducer to bump that alk. and pH level down, then add some chlorine to start and your off and running

[kcherrix123]

Thank you all so much.  I thought the chemical mixes from the dealer sounded wrong since I have some experience with pool (salt water) chemistry.  We started to empty the tub last night... I opened the filer cover and there was 2 inches of gross brown foam floating over the First Filter and a brown line of "scum" at the water line.  Completely grossed us out.  I'm going to give it a good wipe down and rinse and empty again before refilling tomorrow.  I plan to use my Taylor test kit on the water from the tap to get our starting numbers, then use the target numbers from Chem Geek for TA, PH, and CH.  Hopefully we won't get this bio-soup problem again... especially after only 4 days.

[chem geek]

A new spa has a lot of gunk in it.  You might consider using Spa System Flush or Ahh-Some before you are do a fresh refill.

[kcherrix123]

Okay, so we emptied the tub and bailed out the water that didn't drain in the very bottom of the tub.  We took Chem Geeks advise and filled it again to flush the lines with a spa flush product, drained it.  Filled it again then I got in and wiped it down completely with a mid soap and sponge (it already had a scum line), rinsed it, drained it, bailed it, and refilled it AGAIN.  Rinsed the filter and the Nature 2 Sanitizer and threw the First Filter into the dishwasher (it was nasty).  So the entire tub is squeaky clean and has fresh water.  I used my own Taylor 1000 test kit to test the fresh water straight from the tap.  My numbers were:

FC 0 ppm
pH 7.2
TA 160
CH 150

I added:
1 oz. of 56% dichlor

Don't know what to add to get the TA down...

The next day, yesterday, I retested:

FC 5 ppm (high)
pH above 8.4 ppm
CH 80 ppm

I added a few oz. of Calcium Hardness Increaser and got that back up to 150 ppm
I added at least 5 oz. of pH Reducer in increments and got it down to about 7.8 before I gave up for the night.

This morning I went out and tested again:

FC 0 ppm
pH back up above 8.4 (my test won't read anything above 8.4).

The cover is on so it's not the sun leaching the FC.
We have not been back in it since we refilled it.

What do I need to do to get the TA down and is that why I can't get my pH down?
How do I keep the numbers down... do I have to test and add product everyday?
Is the TA and pH leaching the FC too?

[kcherrix123]

it's been a little over a week and all still looks great!  I am having to add 1/4-1/2 oz. of chlorine (dichlor) and 2 teaspoons of PH reducer every other day.  It's odd, all other levels are good.  Calcium Hardness is a little high, up from 150 when we first filled to pool to about 180-200 today, but I don't understand why every other day I have to reduce the PH and add chlorine.  on the days I don't have to add anything, the levels are perfect.

This morning I went out to test and the panel had the following error:  9F1 - off to check other posts!

[chem geek]

You need to lower the pH frequently because your TA is too high.  It should not be above 80 ppm if you are using Dichlor and have a lot of aeration in your spa such as from spa jets.  You could have the TA go as low as 50 ppm but if you do that you should add 50 ppm Borates (usually from boric acid) for additional pH buffering.

You lower the TA by a combination of acid addition with aeration.  Acid lowers both pH and TA while aeration outgasses carbon dioxide that raises the pH with no change in TA.

[rin-spa-aic]

You need to lower the pH frequently because your TA is too high.  It should not be above 80 ppm if you are using Dichlor and have a lot of aeration in your spa such as from spa jets.  You could have the TA go as low as 50 ppm but if you do that you should add 50 ppm Borates (usually from boric acid) for additional pH buffering.

You lower the TA by a combination of acid addition with aeration.  Acid lowers both pH and TA while aeration outgasses carbon dioxide that raises the pH with no change in TA.

+1 on the Borates.

I also have a Maax and was having similar issues with the chlorine levels. I added Borax after the last fill and also switched to bleach instead of dichlor for routine maintenance.
Pretty much only used dichlor at startup. After that I added enough stabilizer to get it to the minimum and have been on bleach since.  Chlorine leaching problems are history.  The decline is much slower and now at a pretty constant rate.


The 9f1 is that actually gfi?  I think it's the initial error when it tests your GFCI.
My understanding is that you could hit the test button on the GFCI and the spa would recognize it.
That didn't seem to work in my case. I feel like it was a couple weeks before I got this error. Turn it off and on at the breaker and it shouldn't come back (unless you really have a problem).


I've used Nature2 + MPS forever on two previous spas with minimal chlorine. It doesn't seem nearly as effective in this spa. Not sure what the difference is... maybe the Clearzone II?
Anyway, I've come to terms with the fact that this spa requires a more traditional chlorine regimen, although I still try to keep it at the low end.

Also, if doing a flush its good to not just bail the extra water out of the bottom but also rinse the lines with fresh water and then clear them out before re-filling.  It takes a little more time and the use of a wet/dry shop vac, but since I've used these extra steps the spa doesn't have that initial bit of post-purge foam on the re-fill.
I have ahhh-some and Sea-Klear. Can't tell which is really more effective, but I like using the Sea-Klear better.