RainForest Blue

[pkingroch]

Has anyone had any experience with this product?  We're starting a brand new spa and we would like to stay away from Chlorine/DiChlor.

How will it react with my spa (Caldera Geneva Utopia)?  Will we have ozonator problems?  Anyone else use this stuff?

Thanks!
Paul

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

You do understand that you'll still need to shock weekly? Non-chlorine shock is recommened in the instructions, but in all realitly, non-chlor shock hasn't really been around long enough (or tested) to tell exactly what if any long term effect there might be.

"Everything in moderation", remember? Chlorine, while perhaps not totally completly 100% safe, may in fact be safer, in the long term, than non-chlorine shock (MPS).

[pkingroch]

I'm new at this.  I know that I'll need to shock weekly, but I'm not sure about much anything else.

Why is MPS not 100% safe?

My biggest concern is that my children have bad chlorine reactions to some very modest amounts of chlorine.  They never effect me, but it seems it always effects one fo the kids.

Thanks!
Paul

[Rboehme]

People have reactions to all different kinds of sanitizers. I would ask your dealer if they would recommend this sanitizer for use with your spa.

[pkingroch]

They didn't really recommend anything.  The dealer gives a cholrine kit with any purchase.  They don't carry RainForest Blue, but gave me a couple of other dealer names that may carry it.

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

I didn't say MPS wasn't 100% safe. What I said was it's reletivly new and hasn'y been around long enough or had any publically disclosed testing to prove it's 100% safe.

What I've found from our message board is that more people are alergic/sensitive to MPS than to any other chemical used in spas.

If your kids react to chlorine (which could be questioned as to it's accuracy...... and is a whole nother conversation) you do need to find something else.

Just remember that MPS IS also a chemical.

[Starlight]

Just remember that MPS IS also a chemical.

Yep.  And so is pH+ and pH-, and Metal Gon and the components of the enzyme products and the silver ions...well, I'm sure you get the idea.
 It just makes me laugh when I read posts about being "chemical free".

Starlight

[Electro]

PKingRoch,

RainForestBlue is a system to put copper into the water through dissolution of the copper salt in the product.  By and large, you'll find that the amount this product can actually put into water is insufficient to perform as a disinfectant.  It will not work and requires additional chemicals.  If you have a copper metal ionizer that really puts the correct amount of copper into water, that can be an excellent disinfectant as has been proven in some studies (but not in hot tubs).  But, this type ionizer is quite expensive - think over $1,000 for one that works and $500 for a cheap one.

With regard to the concern that your children are sensitive to chlorine, there is an excellent way to use diChlor such that you'll be able to enter the spa most days with chlorine below 0.1 ppm.  You would use the Nature2 spa product that puts silver ions into the water, much like RainForestBlue puts copper into spa water.  Note that there is a pool Nature2 product that is different than the spa product; the pool product contains both silver and copper.  It cannot or should not be used in spas for techical reasons associated with the effects of copper in the limited water quantities in spas, when compared with pools.  But, the silver will not interact and cause problems that copper can.  And, you'd use an ozonator.  These 2 backup systems can enhance the use of chlorine in a way that makes it quite usable for 95+ percent of folks.

See www.rhtubs.com and look at the FAQ section for comments by Northman, who is an expert on spa water chemistry.  Also, Vermonter at that site is an expert microbiologist who has done actual research proving the concepts you'll read about there.

Folks should know that the only primary methods of disinfection that are proven for hot tubs in independent scientific studies and published in peer-reviewed journals are (1) chlorine and (2) bromine.  There are no others.  No other product you'll read or hear about has been rigorously studied and proven to provide adequate disinfection by independent scientific studies for hot tubs as used in the home.  I am very critical of the spa industry for not making these facts clear to spa buyers.  That said, there are some chemicals that can be helpful as backups to diChlor and bromine.

The best information available is at the web site mentioned above.  You should not believe any manufacturer's claims that have not been independently reviewed by scientific peers in the field of spa microbiology and published in respected journals.  Try looking and you'll not find much.  I have put hundreds of hours into studying these issues.

I am presently working with an experimentalist who has been studying the effects of several metal ions and proprietary combinations for disinfection.  There are several promising approaches, but none have been independently proven.  And, none will be until it is certain that the manufacturer/owner can get exclusive patents on the products to protect the large investment being made (think on the order of $100,000  to $300,000 and more for certain chemicals).

If anyone has access to scientific studies that have been peer-reviewed and which disprove anything I've said, I'd like to know about it.

Electro

[pkingroch]

Thanks for the advice people.  After more reading, we'll probably go with dicholr after all.  The hope is to keep the levels low enough that it won't bother the kids.

[Tman122]

Done properly your chlorine levels should be .5 or less when you soak. Only when your not soaking should your levels be above 3 PPM And chlorine dissapates quickly.