Truth about ozone? CD or UV?

[CalicoskiesNC]

We've read that the cd ozone puts out as much as 4 times the ozone but that the uv light ozone works well enuf, been around for years.  Jacuzzi dealer tells us that when cd came out they pushed and sold bunches of them, then about 12-15mo later found out they were having to replace a huge number of them right after warranty runs out.  Said that the cost of the chip replacement was high and that after replacing the chip found out that sometimes the entire unit needed replacing.  So his shop quit selling the cd ozonators and only use UV now. Any comments on this?  Seems everyone wants cd ozone, but is UV acceptable too?  If we pushed him we might be able to get a cd unit.

[bulmer4nc]

Funny that you posted this... I was going to post something similar this morning.  I'll be interested to hear the feedback in terms of performance or cost of repairs between the two.

Ken

[Gary]

There are two types of UV ozonators: Solid State and Ballast. Ballast will only last around 9000 hours then the bulb needs to be replaced. The solid state ones will last much, much longer and you never need to touch them.

I do not care for CD ozonators at all. The reason is simple; if I can get an ozonator to a consumer that will last many, many years and it never has to be touched, or compared to a UV one were the bulb will wear out in about 9000 hours or a CD one that will require maintenance in the next 1-3 years.

Gary

[CalicoskiesNC]

Our SD guy says the SunZone has a ceramic chip that should last at least 5yrs. The Jacuzzi guy was not clear about solid state or ballast, but we will ask that today.  It doesnt sound like I should be worried about either, they will both work well and I might just be replacing a bulb in 9000 hours?  That doesnt sound like a big concern.  I just want one that works well.  I'll be sharing this tub with 3 boys and their numerous friends and I'm a bit of a germophobe already!   

[Gary]

The chip may last that long but it will requiring cleaning way before that. Who pays for that!.

Gary

[Starlight]

I don't know what Gary means by a "solid state" system.  The two systems I know are used on spas are corona discharge (CD) and ultraviolet lamp (UV, lamp runs off a ballast).   I would opt for a good balance between functionality, ease of use, and cost.  Most UV lamps that I have seen are good for about 1 year of continuous use (=8760 hours).  As the bulb ages, the UV output and consequently ozone production, falls. I am not familiar with the lamps used in spa ozonators, but the UV lamps I have used in the past are considerably more expensive than comparably sized bulbs of other types.  Maintenance on UV systems is minimal unless the bulb is in a dusty environment.  Primary Cost=new bulb yearly

CD systems can produce much more ozone.  I see this as a big positive provided the spa is designed to utilize the ozone properly and not simply create trapped ozone under the cover.  I was surprised to find that there are no studies on the effectiveness of using ozone in spas, and since it is only effective while in contact with the water and it dissipates quickly, I would go for the highest concentration I could in the contact chamber.  Yes, keeping the discharge surfaces clean is important in maintaining good ozone output, but good design can minimize this task.  Primary cost=cleaning electrodes X times per year

Now, what I've said is all "in theory".  I don't design or service spas, so someone, like Gary, who sees many these devices in operation can provide the data on how well the theory got translated into reality.  I opted for the Sundance CD system on my new spa.

Starlight

[ZzTop]

CD systems can produce much more ozone.  I see this as a big positive provided the spa is designed to utilize the ozone properly and not simply create trapped ozone under the cover.  I was surprised to find that there are no studies on the effectiveness of using ozone in spas, and since it is only effective while in contact with the water and it dissipates quickly, I would go for the highest concentration I could in the contact chamber.  Yes, keeping the discharge surfaces clean is important in maintaining good ozone output, but good design can minimize this task.  Primary cost=cleaning electrodes X times per year

Now, what I've said is all "in theory".  I don't design or service spas, so someone, like Gary, who sees many these devices in operation can provide the data on how well the theory got translated into reality.  I opted for the Sundance CD system on my new spa.

Starlight

CD type operation can be adversely effected by high humidity.  My understanding is they do not work well in very humid conditions and can produce nitric acid under those conditions.  In other words CD Ozinators work best in very dry atmospheric conditons.  Commercial applications use air dryers.

As best as I can find out UV contact tubes should be six feet, and CD contact tubes up to twenty five feet long.

People have posted about solid state ballast, I assume using UV,  but who makes them.  I would like to see a web link.

I am looking for more information on Ozinator types, their benefits , negatives, and the name of the manufacturers.

I have not seen replacement bulbs offered on the Net.  Has anyone got a link?

On Hot Tubs that have a 24/7 circ system the ozinator is running all the time, however with systems using only jet pumps, the ozinator is on only when the jet pump is running.  So a UV system which does not produce as much ozone as CD works well on 24./7 circ systems.  CD systems which produce more ozone do so with jet pumps over a much shorter period of time, possibly two to six hours a day to do the same job.  Because CD systems produce more ozone they require a longer length contact tube.

I hope others can add to this in a positive and informative way.  Thanks

Regards Zz

[CalicoskiesNC]

My Jacuzzi dealer said that to replace the bulb would cost as much as the new unit so he advises replacing the unit instead.  

[Mendocino101]

Zz,

Marquis offers a solid state ozonator standard on each Marquis spa sold..it . It is installed at the factory, it is a UV type but does not use a ballast, In testing I am told that they can last for as long as 7 years and each time they light, the ozone is exactly the same as day one.....it requires no maintence...It has a 3 year warranty and the cost to replace it is under 200.00 dollars...not including a service tech to install it for you if you so wish...

[Rboehme]

Zz,

Marquis offers a solid state ozonator standard on each Marquis spa sold..it . It is installed at the factory, it is a UV type but does not use a ballast, In testing I am told that they can last for as long as 7 years and each time they light, the ozone is exactly the same as day one.....it requires no maintence...It has a 3 year warranty and the cost to replace it is under 200.00 dollars...not including a service tech to install it for you if you so wish...

Actually the marquis ozone unit uses an electric ballast.
It is an Ultra Violet ozone generator, but instead of a standard uv bulb it uses a plasma cell uv lamp. Over 100,000 starts and stops it has minimal depletion. So far it is by far the most customer friendly ozone unit available. It is extremely similar to the ozone unit found at http://documents.balboa-instruments.com/pdf/ps/OZONE1.pdf

[ZzTop]

Zz,

Marquis offers a solid state ozonator standard on each Marquis spa sold..it . It is installed at the factory, it is a UV type but does not use a ballast, In testing I am told that they can last for as long as 7 years and each time they light, the ozone is exactly the same as day one.....it requires no maintence...It has a 3 year warranty and the cost to replace it is under 200.00 dollars...not including a service tech to install it for you if you so wish...

Thanks Mendocino  do you know who manufactures it?

[ZzTop]

My Jacuzzi dealer said that to replace the bulb would cost as much as the new unit so he advises replacing the unit instead.  

Yes that is my understanding too.  The problem is that to spend $200. per year is quite expensive as we do not need as much sanitizer (the big advantage) but any money saved on sanitizer is small if any.  $200 buys a lot of sanitizer.

[Mendocino101]

Zz,

As mentioned by RBoehme....you can see his link above that is about the closest you will find and I do understand it is made for them by Balboa.....

[bulmer4nc]

Actually the marquis ozone unit uses an electric ballast.
It is an Ultra Violet ozone generator, but instead of a standard uv bulb it uses a plasma cell uv lamp. Over 100,000 starts and stops it has minimal depletion. So far it is by far the most customer friendly ozone unit available. It is extremely similar to the ozone unit found at http://documents.balboa-instruments.com/pdf/ps/OZONE1.pdf

If you look at this doc from the Marquis web site about maintenance it says this about checking the Ozonator:

"Check to see if the buld is lighted.  Run spa in low-speed.  The end caps of the ozonator should have a green glow if functioning properly.  If not, the buld has burned out.  Contact your dealer for service."

http://www.marquisspas.com/documents/2004/Spa_Maintenance.pdf

Is the plasma cell uv lamp the bulb they are talking about here?

[Starlight]

CD type operation can be adversley effected by high humidity.  My understanding is they do not work well in very humid conditions and can produce nitric acid under those conditions.  In other words CD Ozinators work best in very dry atmospheric conditons.  Commercial applications use air dryers.

Yes, that is true but the commercial applications where this matters produce pounds of ozone per day.  In a spa unit, the production of nitric acid will likely contribute less acid to the water than you drink in one can of soda. (I could do the math, but I'm lazy.)  It's a non-issue from my standpoint.  I have built a large ozone generator to use in uncontrolled atmospheric conditions, and even there nitric oxides/acid was not a problem.

The reference to the Balboa unit was interesting.  Solid-state ballasts are not new technology, and I wish I knew what the marketing people mean by "Plasma Cell (TM)" technology.  A standard fluorescent or UV lamp is basically a cell flull of mercury plasma.  If they mean the new microwave-excited UV lamp, I don't know much about them other than they are claimed to have several advantages--among them higher ozone outputs and much improved bulb life.  If true and Balboa has commercialized a reliable product, then I can see significant advantages to such a system and will investigate further when my CD system dies.  Thanks for the heads up!

Starlight