Is this normal?

[333president]

Hey Guys, I just got my hot tub set up.

It took almost a whole, large bottle of "spa down" to get the pH within normal range. Is this normal? Is it safe to bath in almost an entire bottle of "spa down" (which I read was some form of acid). Thanks guys.

[Spoiledrotten]

When I change the water in mine (450 gal), it takes at least 6+ oz to get my PH down. Not sure how many ounces are in the large bottles, but I guess every water supply is different. I'm sure the experts will chime in shortly and give you what you need to hear.

[TwinCitiesHotSpring]

It absolutely can be normal depending on your water supply...I have customers in certain areas that are using anywhere from 16-32 ounces (dry weight) of pH reducer @ startup...I recommend that you dilute the product in warm water, and split it up into 3 doses with your jets running in between, for example lets say you need 24 ounces, I would dilute and add 10oz to the spa, run your jets for 10 minutes, then dilute and add 8oz. and run the jets for 10 minutes, then go with your final 6oz and run the jets one more time

[Tman122]

That's why I like muratic acid to reduce PH. If your carefull and not afraid of handling it a gallon is 9 bucks and you'll never use it all. It's a whole lot stronger than any PH down product. Be sure to dilute it with water in an old plastic coffee can or something plastic. Water first then acid. Try an once first with a coffee can full of water. See how much that moves your PH.

[chem geek]

If you use a Spa Down product that is 93.2% Sodium Bisulfate aka dry acid (as with most such Spa Decreaser products), then this is almost the same acid effect by volume as Muriatic Acid (31.45% Hydrochloric Acid).

If your Total Alkalinity (TA) is high, then it can take a lot of acid to lower it and until it is lowered the pH will rise especially from aeration of the water.  In a 350 gallon spa, lowering the TA by 10 ppm takes 1.2 ounces weight or 0.8 ounces volume of dry acid (93.2% sodium bisulfate) or 0.9 fluid ounces of Muriatic Acid (31.45% Hydrochloric Acid).

If your bottle was 1 pound, then that would lower the TA in 350 gallons by 130 ppm which is a lot unless your TA is exceptionally high, such as from some well water or areas with very high water hardness (which is high in CH, but often also high in TA).

[333president]

You guys are amazing, thank you sooooo much everyone!

[Spoiledrotten]

Well, after reading this, I'm off to get some muratic acid! Is there a good sub for PH up? Would that be baking soda?

[Tman122]

PH up, soda ash does a better job than baking soda. But you should make sure your total alkalinity is in range (80-120) first before you mess with your PH. So maybe you do need baking soda it works better for TA adjustments and has a small effect on PH? And depending on your sanitizer you have to be careful. Remember dichlor and bromine both drive down PH and TA because of their acid (cyunaric) content, so go to the high end of the TA and PH range and you will have more time between water balance adjustments. I used to get my TA to 120 and my PH to about 7.6 and through use, dichlor additions and shocking it would be down to 100 and 7.4 in 3-4 weeks and 80 and 7.2  3-4 weeks later. At this point baking soda alone would raise both and before you know it water change 3-4 months. Everyone's use is different and will change the balance issues.

Others have different ways of water balance than me so there's no gospel here. Whatever works for you. based on your starting values.

[TwinCitiesHotSpring]

That's why I like muratic acid to reduce PH. If your carefull and not afraid of handling it a gallon is 9 bucks and you'll never use it all. It's a whole lot stronger than any PH down product. Be sure to dilute it with water in an old plastic coffee can or something plastic. Water first then acid. Try an once first with a coffee can full of water. See how much that moves your PH.

don't mind using it in my own spa, but would never recommend to a customer because I'm sure I would be sued instantly after someone spilled it all over themselves....I mean I just read a story where someone is suing wal-mart over there plastic bags causing injury..this country is ridiculous 

[chem geek]

Well, after reading this, I'm off to get some muratic acid! Is there a good sub for PH up? Would that be baking soda?

I'm not sure why you'd want to use Muriatic Acid over dry acid in a spa.  In a pool it makes sense to use Muriatic Acid since one generally wants to avoid a large buildup of sulfates that can attack plaster, but in a spa that should not be a problem.  Either one is fine to use, but Muriatic  Acid is nasty smelling stuff -- use the half-strength 15% variety if you want less fuming of the concentrated product.

As for pH Up, that is sodium carbonate and is identical to Arm & Hammer Super Washing Soda (careful: NOT the laundry detergent) which you can obviously get for a lower price at grocery stores and is used to raise the pH though also increases the TA as well.  Alkalinity Up is sodium bicarbonate (aka sodium hydrogen carbonate) and is identical to Arm & Hammer Baking Soda and is used to raise the TA (it can also raise the pH if it is low, but is not as efficient in doing so).  If you want to raise the pH with half the rise in TA, you can use 20 Mule Team Borax.

[Tman122]

That's why I like muratic acid to reduce PH. If your carefull and not afraid of handling it a gallon is 9 bucks and you'll never use it all. It's a whole lot stronger than any PH down product. Be sure to dilute it with water in an old plastic coffee can or something plastic. Water first then acid. Try an once first with a coffee can full of water. See how much that moves your PH.

don't mind using it in my own spa, but would never recommend to a customer because I'm sure I would be sued instantly after someone spilled it all over themselves....I mean I just read a story where someone is suing wal-mart over there plastic bags causing injury..this country is ridiculous 

As a dealer you should say I use or I think. Never I recommend. LOL Wheres your store? I'll be down doing some dealer surfing.

[Spoiledrotten]

Good advice from Tman and Chem Geek. Thank you both!   

[summerside9000]

That is great advice for the masses. I have been doing the juggling act between ph up and down using home made and store bought products. TA control. Its awesome when you get it right for a few days.