Looking for a large spa in the $5000-$6000 range

[wmccall]

I'm late coming to this thread.  I think one thing newbies to frequently is over buy size wise.  Visions of big parties with lots of friends doesn't happen nearly as often as one might think.  In 10 years, our tub has had 2 people 75% of the time, 3 people 24% of the time and that leaves about 1% for more than 3.

[Spoiledrotten]

I think you should jump in with both feet for the Belize. You asked the ones here to talk you out of buying it, but then after some very important issues as to why you shouldn't buy it, you come back with another thread for the Belize. You asked, these guys spoke. It's your money; buy it and then come back and tell everyone after a while if you made the right choice or not. Simple.  Good luck with your choice.   

[TwinCitiesHotSpring]

I talked to the Spa Depot today and clarified a few more things.

It seems that the Belize is a thermal pane model and is full plastic construction. This seems promising to me, as repairs should be super simple on it even if it does break. I assume TP means there's zero foam in the tub. Also has guillotine shutoffs and an equipment compartment that I associate with more expensive models, and are definitely good things. The controls are Balboa VS500, which seems decent. Some pictures of the construction are visible under "more photos": http://www.spadepot.com/shop/Belize-e750-Hot-Tub-Spa-P9750C646.aspx

Is the 3yr shell surface warranty a bad sign?

All in all, if TP makes repairs relatively easy, I might be ok with jumping on this. To get the same level of technology, I'd have to spend closer to 10k retail, which is really pushing the budget.

this spa doesn't have any new technology, you get what you pay for just like anything else in life...that said for a cheap spa it might work just fine for you..good luck with your purchase

[steel_3d]

I think you should jump in with both feet for the Belize. You asked the ones here to talk you out of buying it, but then after some very important issues as to why you shouldn't buy it, you come back with another thread for the Belize. You asked, these guys spoke. It's your money; buy it and then come back and tell everyone after a while if you made the right choice or not. Simple.  Good luck with your choice.   

No need to be facetious. I'm asking technical questions, after seeing a few spas in various price ranges and seeing how they are built. This one is built the way I like, without foam, without wood, with a proper equipment bay, and all the other things I listed. Definitely not new tech, just tech I intuitively think I like, because I know I'll have to make repairs eventually, no matter what brand I choose.

Some people might even learn something from the information I gathered. But I'm not arrogant enough to think that I know everything, which is why I'm asking for an intelligent discussion, and people's specific experiences. Also, people who have replied might not have been familiar with the construction of this particular tub, as I wasn't, and they might have based their comments on different models. Nobody other than Sam has had any experience with Clearwater?

And yes, I do live in the warm part of LA, which makes a bit of a difference. I also think that there are ways to make TP tubs more efficient with a bit of diy insulation... But again, if there's a night and day difference, that's the kind of experiences I want to hear. Is it gonna cost me 50% more? 100% more?? 50 bucks a month extra is not gonna break the bank, but it's definitely a consideration, and I would like an efficient tub out of principle, is possible. They say the insulation is r20, and the base is insulated, of course. Not sure if all TP tubs are made equal.

[Tman122]

All TP tubs are not made equal. The concept is that the waste heat generated from the pump motors during operation is used to create the R-Factor. However, if 4 hours of filtering is required to keep your water clean then the pump motors are not running for 20 hours or the majority or the day. This is the crucial time for this insulation design. A slight breeze wicks all the warmth out of the inside of the cabinet very quickly causing the pumps to kick on to heat again and again.

There are some TP designs that have combated this with an almost sealed cabinet but they are more expensive and Arctic is the only one I have seen that does it as close to right as possible. And then you have to deal with the problem of subjecting your pump motors to a super heated environment that very likely will shorten the life expectancy of the motors and electronic controls. And when it is very warm outside overheating water that won't cool to your set temp is an issue.

Storing the vessel heat in the vessel is how FF works and separating the motors and electronics from the vessel stores the heat in the water and not the plumbing. Yet insulating the plumbing to reduce heat loss. This is why this design is still popular, because it works well. Absolutely it is harder to fix a leak in the foam encased plumbing but leaks are rare no matter what a TP tub salesman tells you and fixing them is no big deal for an experienced tech or DIYer with moxy.

When you weight the pro's and cons of both designs the engineers likely didn't have enough cons in the FF design to scrap it. If 98% of Hot Tub leaks are in the equipment bay then why redesign insulation that works well for the 2% of leaks in the foam. Why not do your engineering and design in preventing leaks in the foam.

[Spoiledrotten]

No need to be facetious. I'm asking technical questions, after seeing a few spas in various price ranges and seeing how they are built. This one is built the way I like, without foam, without wood, with a proper equipment bay, and all the other things I listed. Definitely not new tech, just tech I intuitively think I like, because I know I'll have to make repairs eventually, no matter what brand I choose.

I wasn't trying to be facetious. You asked for something and you got it but it wasn't what you wanted to hear so you went back to what you seemed to have your sights set on. Nothing wrong with that but it's like being lost in a strange town, stopping and asking a local citizen for directions, then drive off in the opposite direction. Just my observation. Again, good luck with your search/purchase. Hopefully, with whichever brand you choose, it will be a good one giving you many years of service.

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

$50 bucks a month not a big deal? That's $600 a year. In 5 years that's $3000. So if the spa starts leaking after 5 years, which would be a very rare occurrence, you've now spent three thousand dollars, to save maybe a couple hundred on a repair...sounds like a pretty bad investment to me.

[Spatech_tuo]

$50 bucks a month not a big deal? That's $600 a year. In 5 years that's $3000. So if the spa starts leaking after 5 years, which would be a very rare occurrence, you've now spent three thousand dollars, to save maybe a couple hundred on a repair...sounds like a pretty bad investment to me.

What interest % rate are we using for the calculation?

[Spoiledrotten]

Doesn't look like any interest rate is in that one.  50 * 12 * 5 = 3000.

[Spatech_tuo]

Doesn't look like any interest rate is in that one.  50 * 12 * 5 = 3000.

I knew that, just being a smartazz. Personally I would never sacricfice years of energy efficiency for ease of repair down the road as long as I know I'm getting a quality made product but the shopper needs to make that decision.

[Spoiledrotten]

Doesn't look like any interest rate is in that one.  50 * 12 * 5 = 3000.

I knew that, just being a smartazz. Persoanlly I would never years of sacricfice energy efficiency for ease of repair down the road as long as I know I'm getting a quality made product but the shopper needs to make that decision.

    

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

Man you guys are tough!...and I was too lazy to calculate interest :-). I was going to go with the 10 calculation, which would show that in 10 years you would have saved the entire cost of the spa just in energy savings...But then Roger would have come down on me saying, "come on, you REALLY think a spa of this quality will last 10 years?"

[TwinCitiesHotSpring]

A house does a pretty good job of "sealing" itself off from the outside elements...but that doesn't mean if I decide to build a house down the road that I'll tell the contractor to "skip the insulation" so I can save a few bucks, oh and because the water line for my bathroom MAY leak 10 years down the road...I'm sorry but the sales pitch for thermopane is the most asinine thing ever

[Flyonthewall]

if you can squeeze a little more out of your budget the caldera palentino is big (89"x89"x38"), and an excellent performer. 

[Tman122]

Man you guys are tough!...and I was too lazy to calculate interest :-). I was going to go with the 10 calculation, which would show that in 10 years you would have saved the entire cost of the spa just in energy savings...But then Roger would have come down on me saying, "come on, you REALLY think a spa of this quality will last 10 years?"

10 years phtttttt