Massive leak in my D1

[shemp]

Very disappointed.  I purchased a used California D1, 2003 last summer but couldn't hook it up until now.  I very carefully emptied it last fall and covered it.  Unfortunately, the cover leaked and I found some frozen water in it, enough to cover the bottom jets.  I waited for it to thaw and filled it up.  Upon filling, I got a bunch of wood shavings coming out of one of the jets.  My electrician had to drill an access hole in the bottom of the base near one of the pumps.  I had the pumps disconnected for freeze protection.  Probably got in there.

When I put power on it, I got a low flow error.  I couldn't figure that out since I had no jets on yet.  I turned jets 1 on high and the farthest jets came to life.  After about 20 seconds, the opposite jets came on.  Then the massive leak showed up, gushing from the bottom on all sides.  I turned power off which slowed the leak but still continued.  It's still leaking now so I don't know how high the leak is.

The front panel was already off and everything looked fine.  I took off one of the side panels and, much to my dismay, only found a well sealed tub.  Paper wrapped insulation. 

Where should I begin to find this leak?  I'm not looking forward to the mess I think I'm going to have to make removing paper and insulation but cant think of any other solutions.  Hopefully someone out there has a systematic approach instead of a scraper and shop vac.

Thanks
Shemp

[shemp]

It drained to about 6 inches from the bottom.  There are 100's of little brown thin flakes stuck to the tub now.  I thought this was saw dust but no way.  It must be some kind of mineral deposit.

I called a local dealer and was told it's usually about $900-1150 to repair.  He said on foam tubs they lift them up and repair from underneath. 

Seems kind of steep but I dont have any background in this.  Opinions?

Thanks

[Sam]

It can cost easily that much.  This is a big part of the argument of thermal pane vs. full foam, which I won't get into.  Freeze damage can be pretty nasty.  There are usually multiple leaks in this situation.  Sometimes you will repair one or two only to find that there are more.  With a 10 year old tub it may not be worth it.  You can't really tell though until they dig in there and see what's going on.  Since there was was only a little bit of water in the tub, you can assume that the leaks are isolated to that level or lower, which may not be too bad.  How much do you have invested so far?   It's a frustrating situation and I wish you the best.

The brown flakes sound pretty weird.  If you can post a picture, that may help.  It sounds like you have some nasty stuff growing in the plumbing.  If you fix the tub, the first thing that I would do is a system flush. 

[clover]

"I very carefully emptied it last fall........Unfortunately, the cover leaked and I found some frozen water in it, enough to cover the bottom jets.  I waited for it to thaw and filled it up.....I got a bunch of wood shavings coming out of one of the jets......I had the pumps disconnected for freeze protection....I put power on it, I got a low flow error..... I couldn't figure that out since I had no jets on yet.  I turned jets 1 on high....After about 20 seconds, the opposite jets came on.  Then the massive leak showed up, gushing from the bottom on all sides.  I turned power off which slowed the leak but still continued.  It's still leaking now so I don't know how high the leak is......Where should I begin......."

Thanks
Shemp

Shemp, the fix is easy, finding it will be the challenge.  When the water stopped leaking it was at the level of the leak you are looking for.  EXPLAIN "how" you carefully drained the tub.  Whatever happened, your explanation does sound like the potential of ice damage, possibly at a jet fitting because of "gushing from all sides".  Where the water level stopped is your first clue, which is where the leak is.

IF you gravity drained the tub with a house connected to the drain, AND you opened the plumbing at the pumps, DID YOU shop vac the lines or the jets themselves from inside the tub to extract any water left in the lines?

The momentary "Flo" message was probably the circulation pump starting up before being primed, and it would produce that message and not allow the heater to work until water was flowing through the circulation / heater system.

The "gushing" is a rapid water loss that was triggered when the pumps came on.  Each pump is dedicated to a separate segment of jets, and the water level stopped at presumably the cracked or fractured fitting on the back of the jet, that MAY have had water in it after draining, or when water entered after it was covered.

YOUR observations can identify the suspects, possibly the foot well jets, and be the source of the "gushing" which would indicate the pump "pushing" the water under pressure.  Prior to starting the pump, the line was most likely emptied after the ice thawed and it was air locked while you filled it until the pump turned on.

So like I said, replacing the jet, or repairing the fracture, should be simple, finding it is the problem.  The best approach is to respond with some affirmations to my assumptions, and then we may proceed with discovery and isolated extraction in the immediate area of the problem.

THEN we can proceed to identfy the "wood shavings", possibly mineral or calcium deposits from internal plumbing.  I doubt them to be wood shavings, as it would be impossible for them to enter the closed water system. 

[shemp]

Had my first soak!!

I spent the $1100 and 3 guys came over in absolutely nasty weather.  They put the tub on its side and found a cracked manifold.  8 hours later, no more leaks.  They removed a couple garbage bags of foam and didn't recommend replacing it.  I'm thinking about placing some fiberglass batt insulation in there where I can.

I felt like I was at a resort.  Sure is nice.  The weather was terrible, which made the whole experience better.

Thanks for the help.

[clover]

Simple solution, IF you still have the insulation they took out, put it into a plastic garbage bag and stuff it back into the cavity from which it came.  IF Not, then stuff the bags with old rags and fill the empty air space.  As long as you have air exposed to the lines, you will have heat loss, and fiberglass is not going to solve the problem, the objective is holding heat within by eliminating the circulation of air that allows the heat to radiate.

For the benefit of others, any time draining the spa in a freeze zone, shop vac all jets and pump lines which will remove 70% of the water in the lines.  When water freezes, ice expands.  When the plumbing atachments are full of water, ice expands, and plastic fractures, and that is what happend to the manifold.

Glad to hear your'e back in hot water and loving it.