Sub Panel or No Sub Panel

[dazedandconfused]

The main panel is in my garage.  The spa is outside right behind the garage.  The distance is 15 feet +/-.

I am considering 2 options.  Anybody want to weigh in with pros/cons of each option?

Option 1)  Install a 60A GFI breaker in the main panel and run romex thru the garage wall to the spa directly.

Option 2) Install a 60A non-GFI breaker in the main and run romex thru the garage wall to a sub panel with a 60A GFI breaker and then run romex to the spa.

Thanks

[doodoo]

I prefer the second option. Reason being is that you don't need to be there if the service tech needs to work on your tub.  I know that the 1st option is a little cheaper in that you don't need to buy a second breaker but a breaker is fairly cheap in comparison to you taking time off from work.

[doodoo]

Now you may prefer to take time off from work, so in that case every reason to get to your tub is well..........great.  

[Gary]

Code states you have to have a means of disconnect within sight of the spa (not closer than five feet).

Check your local codes!!! If you do not if and when you try to sell your house it be a pain in the #@@


Gary

[Electro]

dazedand confused,

As Gary said, it is illegal to install as you suggested.  It is required that a disconnect be within sight, which in addition to the obvious sight thing also means it has to be from 5 to 30 feet (special 30 ft instead of the code's 50 ft, because of the UL standard) away.  It cannot be thru a wall or window.  You have to be able to walk up to the disconnect immediately from the hot tub, not go around or inside.

Also, you may not legally run Romex outside.  Some folks do it, but it violates the NEC, as the manufacturers cannot list Romex for this application.  You'll notice that the spa instructions specifically say to use THHN or equivalent wire.  Also, in an outside application, you must use some type of wire protection, such as conduit.

If you do not comply with these rules, which are part of the NEC and directly referenced in the manufacturer's listing approval and included in their instructions for installation, their warranty will be void.  Take a look.  It specifically says so.  Also, your home insurer can void your homeowner insurance for any damages related to the hot tub and associated wiring.

Electro

[Brewman]

In your case you have 2 options.  You can put your GFI in your main panel, and install a non fused air conditioner disconnect outside for the spa power.
The advantages:  One less breaker to purchase, so cost is a bit cheaper.  You can kill the power to the spa via the pullout on the a/c disconnect.
The disadvantage is that the GFI is on the inside of your property.  This is how I'm setup, except we have the GFI breaker in a sub panel in our basement.  So far having the GFI inside has not caused any inconvenience.

Or you can put a regular breaker in your main panel, and install your GFI breaker in a spa panel adjacent to your tub.  Advantage is the GFI is outside near the spa.
This may cost a bit more, since you have to buy a 50 or 60 amp double pole breaker for your main panel.  

[Chas]

If you end up selecting the HotSpring product on your list, you will be handed a sub panel. Comes as part of the deal, and it contains two GFI breakers, and has room for one additional if you want to put in a courtesy outlet, which is required in most areas.

The sub panel is rain-tite, and you should mount it outside, so you can do as others have already mentioned above.

[Electro]

Chas,                                                          

I think that Hot Springs is a fantastic manufacturer to go the trouble of making sure that the purchaser has the right equipment to do this correctly and safely.

The 120 volt courtesy outlet that you mention is required per Article 680.43 of the electrical code for indoor installations and is required to be GFCI protected independently of the GFCI for the hot tub.  It must be installed between 5 feet and 10 feet away from the tub.  I assume this is why Hot Springs includes 2 GFCI breakers.  Outdoor installations do not specifically require this "courtesy" GFCI outlet, but it is best to have one or install one.  The reason is that experience has shown that folks plug in something nearby, typically a radio or TV, i.e. when they don't get one included in their spa package.  By including the right equipment, the manufacturer is actually doing the right thing and simultaneously protecting themselves from lawsuits.

A big thumbs up for HOT SPRINGS!!!      

Electro

[Brewman]

When the inspector came after I hooked up our spa, one of the things he checked for was the 120v gfi outlet.  Fortunately, the house already had one at the required distance.  But the inspector did make a point of checking for it, and I am quite sure he would have required me to install one.
Brewman

[Chas]

Chas,                                                          

The 120 volt courtesy outlet that you mention is required per Article 680.43 of the electrical code...   I assume this is why Hot Springs includes 2 GFCI breakers.

A big thumbs up for HOT SPRINGS!!!      

Electro

Actually, HotSpring and Tiger River tubs use both breakers for the tub. They run one breaker for the heater only, and one breaker for all else in the tub. Some models only need a single-pole breaker to run the pump and control system, but most require a two-pole. They do this for many reasons, but some of those reasons are:
1. GFI breakers cost a lot, but work well - they are about the most sensitive yet dependable method of Ground Fault protection. By providing the right stuff, we are assured that the spa will be wired correctly, and the customer gets the benefit of a warranty on the breakers - this is a big deal - those breakers do fail from time to time, and they can cost from $90  to $150.
2. We want the wires from the sub panel to the spa GFI protected.
3. We don't want the customer to have to open the spa to test the GFI.
4. If the heater has a problem, only that breaker will shut off, and the pump and control system will continue to operate - important in freezing areas.
5. The sub panel has room for an additional breaker for the above-mentioned courtesy outlet. You can put in a regular breaker ($10) and run it to a GFI outlet ($9), plus whatever conduit and/or boxes you need. You can put in a 15 amp breaker for that - or run a 20 amp breaker, and put in a couple of outlets or allow for lighting etc. By running this stuff from the same panel, you avoid bonding issues, safety issues, etc.

I agree with you Electro - I think its a good way to do the job. I will say this: many of our customers end up hiring a brother-in-law or a friend to wire their HotSpring spa, and I can't tell you how many times they will try to do it otherwise, and end up with problems down the road.