My 2013 Sundance Optima is home

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

If, and I say again, IF, either of those two electrical aspects are within 5' of the spa, I would report the inspector to his supervisor.

[bimmerdog]

I did a little research on my own. I found the laws for the hot tub in my area  "All switching devices must be located at least 5 feet from INSIDE WALLS of hot tub or separated by a solid fence or wall". (NEC 680.22 (D)).   GFI outlet 5'4"  Box behind  tub 5"0" all measurements to the closest inside point of the tub.  Now WE can all sleep better. 

Dr. Spa thank you for making me aware of what you saw and could have been a problem.  I honestly do feel better that everything is where it should be. 

I do have a question.  Why in my kitchen do I have 5 GFI outlets within 5 feet to my sink?  Why does the GFI outlet by the hot tub need to be 5' away from the tub?

[Spatech_tuo]

I did a little research on my own. I found the laws for the hot tub in my area  "All switching devices must be located at least 5 feet from INSIDE WALLS of hot tub or separated by a solid fence or wall". (NEC 680.22 (D)).   GFI outlet 5'4"  Box behind  tub 5"0" all measurements to the closest inside point of the tub.  Now WE can all sleep better. 

Dr. Spa thank you for making me aware of what you saw and could have been a problem.  I honestly do feel better that everything is where it should be. 

I do have a question.  Why in my kitchen do I have 5 GFI outlets within 5 feet to my sink?  Why does the GFI outlet by the hot tub need to be 5' away from the tub?

"To bad you have no idea what you are talking about."

"and again if you would ask before making a stupid statement"

I'm pretty sure you didn't hurt his feelings but the next time someone (in this case a long time professional in the industry) tells you something that differs from the facts as you know them, you might want to temporarily censor your rude thoughts and do the research to determeine whether he could possibly have a point before you slam him as being stupid. A general apology in your follow-up would have at least been nice but it wouldn't have followed the pattern.

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

I do have a question.  Why in my kitchen do I have 5 GFI outlets within 5 feet to my sink?  Why does the GFI outlet by the hot tub need to be 5' away from the tub?

Briefly....

It's all about safety and attempting to reduce risk as much as possible ("reduce", not eliminate. Eliminating risk is impossible, just check out The Darwin Awards). When the codes are written, one of the things taken into consideration is the tenancy of people to do certain things (frequently, dumb things). As far as the 5' rule for the spa (and there's been a lot of talk over the years of increasing this to 8'), one of the big concerns is to prevent someone that's sitting in the spa from reaching out and plugging something into the outlet....with dripping wet hands. 5' is also to far to set the boom box on the side of the spa while it's plugged in....yet close enough that's it's unlikely you'll go to the trouble of setting in on the side of the spa with an extension cord.

In regards to the kitchen... You WILL put a toaster, coffee maker, toaster oven, bread maker, blender and whatever else on the counter. It would be MUCH less safe if you started running extension cords to do this (extension cords, while a convenience, are actually rather unsafe to use on a permanent basis). Additionally, many fires get started when someone puts one of those outlets splitters on a two receptacle outlet, and splits it into 6 or 8 outlets, then over loads it.

When the human body is shocked, muscles tighten. If your hand is gripping something, you will NOT be able to let go while being shocked. In the kitchen, it's unlikely both hand will be gripping something to complete the circuit, and you'll jerk away. Sitting in a spa this wont happen (jerking away).

A little word on GFCI's. They FAIL. The instructions for them tell you to test them monthly...though almost no one does.

[bimmerdog]

I did a little research on my own. I found the laws for the hot tub in my area  "All switching devices must be located at least 5 feet from INSIDE WALLS of hot tub or separated by a solid fence or wall". (NEC 680.22 (D)).   GFI outlet 5'4"  Box behind  tub 5"0" all measurements to the closest inside point of the tub.  Now WE can all sleep better. 

Dr. Spa thank you for making me aware of what you saw and could have been a problem.  I honestly do feel better that everything is where it should be. 

I do have a question.  Why in my kitchen do I have 5 GFI outlets within 5 feet to my sink?  Why does the GFI outlet by the hot tub need to be 5' away from the tub?

"To bad you have no idea what you are talking about."

"and again if you would ask before making a stupid statement"

I'm pretty sure you didn't hurt his feelings but the next time someone (in this case a long time professional in the industry) tells you something that differs from the facts as you know them, you might want to temporarily censor your rude thoughts and do the research to determeine whether he could possibly have a point before you slam him as being stupid. A general apology in your follow-up would have at least been nice but it wouldn't have followed the pattern.

You are 100% right in what you say.  The reason I said what i said was the way he said it  "has any one noticed"  It should have been "Bimmerdog I think the outlets might be to close. You might want to check them"  I would have said "thank you for your concern and I will look into it". 

When some one post a picture and you see something that you think is wrong, you let the person who posted the picture know your concerns. You speak to the person.  If Dr Spa feels he did do that I do apologize for my response to him. But in my eyes he was not talking to me but talking to the forum.  If I came back and said "screw you your wrong" Then you bring in others to get their opinions.  It was to me the way Dr. Spa wrote his post.   He is totally correct but again this is the Internet.  I look at it this way.  If IM at Dr Spas house and I see some thing wrong I don't run out into the street and yell for every one to hear about what I think is his problem. 

I did learn from Dr Spa comments. I did go and find the code. I did measure for myself.  I did find the City Inspector was spot on to the codes.  So bottom line we can all be happy.

[Spatech_tuo]

I did a little research on my own. I found the laws for the hot tub in my area  "All switching devices must be located at least 5 feet from INSIDE WALLS of hot tub or separated by a solid fence or wall". (NEC 680.22 (D)).   GFI outlet 5'4"  Box behind  tub 5"0" all measurements to the closest inside point of the tub.  Now WE can all sleep better. 

Dr. Spa thank you for making me aware of what you saw and could have been a problem.  I honestly do feel better that everything is where it should be. 

I do have a question.  Why in my kitchen do I have 5 GFI outlets within 5 feet to my sink?  Why does the GFI outlet by the hot tub need to be 5' away from the tub?

"To bad you have no idea what you are talking about."

"and again if you would ask before making a stupid statement"

I'm pretty sure you didn't hurt his feelings but the next time someone (in this case a long time professional in the industry) tells you something that differs from the facts as you know them, you might want to temporarily censor your rude thoughts and do the research to determeine whether he could possibly have a point before you slam him as being stupid. A general apology in your follow-up would have at least been nice but it wouldn't have followed the pattern.

You are 100% right in what you say.  The reason I said what i said was the way he said it  "has any one noticed"  It should have been "Bimmerdog I think the outlets might be to close. You might want to check them"  I would have said "thank you for your concern and I will look into it". 

When some one post a picture and you see something that you think is wrong, you let the person who posted the picture know your concerns. You speak to the person.  If Dr Spa feels he did do that I do apologize for my response to him. But in my eyes he was not talking to me but talking to the forum.  If I came back and said "screw you your wrong" Then you bring in others to get their opinions.  It was to me the way Dr. Spa wrote his post.   He is totally correct but again this is the Internet.  I look at it this way.  If IM at Dr Spas house and I see some thing wrong I don't run out into the street and yell for every one to hear about what I think is his problem. 

I did learn from Dr Spa comments. I did go and find the code. I did measure for myself.  I did find the City Inspector was spot on to the codes.  So bottom line we can all be happy.

Even if you didn't appreciate his approach, you should have done your homework before calling him out as wrong and stupid. This is an internet forum, please don't expect everyone to follow your personal rules of etiquette.  IMHO, a simple "my bad" would go a lot further than your explanation as to how your inappropriate response was driven by the manner in which he formed his statements.

[bimmerdog]

I did a little research on my own. I found the laws for the hot tub in my area  "All switching devices must be located at least 5 feet from INSIDE WALLS of hot tub or separated by a solid fence or wall". (NEC 680.22 (D)).   GFI outlet 5'4"  Box behind  tub 5"0" all measurements to the closest inside point of the tub.  Now WE can all sleep better. 

Dr. Spa thank you for making me aware of what you saw and could have been a problem.  I honestly do feel better that everything is where it should be. 

I do have a question.  Why in my kitchen do I have 5 GFI outlets within 5 feet to my sink?  Why does the GFI outlet by the hot tub need to be 5' away from the tub?

"To bad you have no idea what you are talking about."

"and again if you would ask before making a stupid statement"

I'm pretty sure you didn't hurt his feelings but the next time someone (in this case a long time professional in the industry) tells you something that differs from the facts as you know them, you might want to temporarily censor your rude thoughts and do the research to determeine whether he could possibly have a point before you slam him as being stupid. A general apology in your follow-up would have at least been nice but it wouldn't have followed the pattern.

You are 100% right in what you say.  The reason I said what i said was the way he said it  "has any one noticed"  It should have been "Bimmerdog I think the outlets might be to close. You might want to check them"  I would have said "thank you for your concern and I will look into it". 

When some one post a picture and you see something that you think is wrong, you let the person who posted the picture know your concerns. You speak to the person.  If Dr Spa feels he did do that I do apologize for my response to him. But in my eyes he was not talking to me but talking to the forum.  If I came back and said "screw you your wrong" Then you bring in others to get their opinions.  It was to me the way Dr. Spa wrote his post.   He is totally correct but again this is the Internet.  I look at it this way.  If IM at Dr Spas house and I see some thing wrong I don't run out into the street and yell for every one to hear about what I think is his problem. 

I did learn from Dr Spa comments. I did go and find the code. I did measure for myself.  I did find the City Inspector was spot on to the codes.  So bottom line we can all be happy.

Even if you didn't appreciate his approach, you should have done your homework before calling him out as wrong and stupid. This is an Internet forum, please don't expect everyone to follow your personal rules of etiquette.  IMHO, a simple "my bad" would go a lot further than your explanation as to how your inappropriate response was driven by the manner in which he formed his statements.

Well I can see my last post JUST WASN"T GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU.  Maybe if more people had the guts to stand up when some one cross a line on the Internet or in real life then we might see people treating people with more respect and think before they talk or type.  It's so easy to hide behind a screen and be anything you want.  If I see some thing I don't like I will speak up. If I make a mistake I will be the first to say "MY BAD" which is the stupidest fifth grade thing a person can say.  But that is the way we have become. 

Again if you forgot what I said all I was mad about was the way he was not talking to me (the person with the problem) but to every one else.  Did  I come across pissed....yes because I was.  Did I apologize...yes I did if I miss read his post..  Or in your way....MY BAD.  And lastly I didn't call him stupid for his information. I called him stupid for the way he put it out there. You have a problem with that...to bad. 

I was excited to get a new tub and was excited to show it on here.  A private msg from Dr. Spa would have worked fine to ask me about the connections. 

If you think I'm an ass or rude or anything else you want to add, that is fine. We can all have our opinion.  I will bend over backwards to help anyone if I can.  I will never try and be rude. Looking back on my first post to Dr Spa I could of handled it better and to Dr Spa a 12 pack is on it's way to you. My way of saying "MY BAD".

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

HEY....... it doesn't matter. I type slow and hate to type...so I tend to be short...sometimes seems rude. no big deal. Lets move on :-)

[bimmerdog]

HEY....... it doesn't matter. I type slow and hate to type...so I tend to be short...sometimes seems rude. no big deal. Lets move on :-)

Done. Hope I sent the 12 pack to the right place

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

Guinness?

[Spatech_tuo]

I did a little research on my own. I found the laws for the hot tub in my area  "All switching devices must be located at least 5 feet from INSIDE WALLS of hot tub or separated by a solid fence or wall". (NEC 680.22 (D)).   GFI outlet 5'4"  Box behind  tub 5"0" all measurements to the closest inside point of the tub.  Now WE can all sleep better. 

Dr. Spa thank you for making me aware of what you saw and could have been a problem.  I honestly do feel better that everything is where it should be. 

I do have a question.  Why in my kitchen do I have 5 GFI outlets within 5 feet to my sink?  Why does the GFI outlet by the hot tub need to be 5' away from the tub?

"To bad you have no idea what you are talking about."

"and again if you would ask before making a stupid statement"

I'm pretty sure you didn't hurt his feelings but the next time someone (in this case a long time professional in the industry) tells you something that differs from the facts as you know them, you might want to temporarily censor your rude thoughts and do the research to determeine whether he could possibly have a point before you slam him as being stupid. A general apology in your follow-up would have at least been nice but it wouldn't have followed the pattern.

You are 100% right in what you say.  The reason I said what i said was the way he said it  "has any one noticed"  It should have been "Bimmerdog I think the outlets might be to close. You might want to check them"  I would have said "thank you for your concern and I will look into it". 

When some one post a picture and you see something that you think is wrong, you let the person who posted the picture know your concerns. You speak to the person.  If Dr Spa feels he did do that I do apologize for my response to him. But in my eyes he was not talking to me but talking to the forum.  If I came back and said "screw you your wrong" Then you bring in others to get their opinions.  It was to me the way Dr. Spa wrote his post.   He is totally correct but again this is the Internet.  I look at it this way.  If IM at Dr Spas house and I see some thing wrong I don't run out into the street and yell for every one to hear about what I think is his problem. 

I did learn from Dr Spa comments. I did go and find the code. I did measure for myself.  I did find the City Inspector was spot on to the codes.  So bottom line we can all be happy.

Even if you didn't appreciate his approach, you should have done your homework before calling him out as wrong and stupid. This is an Internet forum, please don't expect everyone to follow your personal rules of etiquette.  IMHO, a simple "my bad" would go a lot further than your explanation as to how your inappropriate response was driven by the manner in which he formed his statements.

Well I can see my last post JUST WASN"T GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU.  Maybe if more people had the guts to stand up when some one cross a line on the Internet or in real life then we might see people treating people with more respect and think before they talk or type.  It's so easy to hide behind a screen and be anything you want.  If I see some thing I don't like I will speak up. If I make a mistake I will be the first to say "MY BAD" which is the stupidest fifth grade thing a person can say.  But that is the way we have become. 

Again if you forgot what I said all I was mad about was the way he was not talking to me (the person with the problem) but to every one else.  Did  I come across pissed....yes because I was.  Did I apologize...yes I did if I miss read his post..  Or in your way....MY BAD.  And lastly I didn't call him stupid for his information. I called him stupid for the way he put it out there. You have a problem with that...to bad. 

I was excited to get a new tub and was excited to show it on here.  A private msg from Dr. Spa would have worked fine to ask me about the connections. 

If you think I'm an ass or rude or anything else you want to add, that is fine. We can all have our opinion.  I will bend over backwards to help anyone if I can.  I will never try and be rude. Looking back on my first post to Dr Spa I could of handled it better and to Dr Spa a 12 pack is on it's way to you. My way of saying "MY BAD".

Thats exactly why I called you out, I'm glad you understand.

[bimmerdog]

I did a little research on my own. I found the laws for the hot tub in my area  "All switching devices must be located at least 5 feet from INSIDE WALLS of hot tub or separated by a solid fence or wall". (NEC 680.22 (D)).   GFI outlet 5'4"  Box behind  tub 5"0" all measurements to the closest inside point of the tub.  Now WE can all sleep better. 

Dr. Spa thank you for making me aware of what you saw and could have been a problem.  I honestly do feel better that everything is where it should be. 

I do have a question.  Why in my kitchen do I have 5 GFI outlets within 5 feet to my sink?  Why does the GFI outlet by the hot tub need to be 5' away from the tub?

"To bad you have no idea what you are talking about."

"and again if you would ask before making a stupid statement"

I'm pretty sure you didn't hurt his feelings but the next time someone (in this case a long time professional in the industry) tells you something that differs from the facts as you know them, you might want to temporarily censor your rude thoughts and do the research to determeine whether he could possibly have a point before you slam him as being stupid. A general apology in your follow-up would have at least been nice but it wouldn't have followed the pattern.

You are 100% right in what you say.  The reason I said what i said was the way he said it  "has any one noticed"  It should have been "Bimmerdog I think the outlets might be to close. You might want to check them"  I would have said "thank you for your concern and I will look into it". 

When some one post a picture and you see something that you think is wrong, you let the person who posted the picture know your concerns. You speak to the person.  If Dr Spa feels he did do that I do apologize for my response to him. But in my eyes he was not talking to me but talking to the forum.  If I came back and said "screw you your wrong" Then you bring in others to get their opinions.  It was to me the way Dr. Spa wrote his post.   He is totally correct but again this is the Internet.  I look at it this way.  If IM at Dr Spas house and I see some thing wrong I don't run out into the street and yell for every one to hear about what I think is his problem. 

I did learn from Dr Spa comments. I did go and find the code. I did measure for myself.  I did find the City Inspector was spot on to the codes.  So bottom line we can all be happy.

Even if you didn't appreciate his approach, you should have done your homework before calling him out as wrong and stupid. This is an Internet forum, please don't expect everyone to follow your personal rules of etiquette.  IMHO, a simple "my bad" would go a lot further than your explanation as to how your inappropriate response was driven by the manner in which he formed his statements.

Well I can see my last post JUST WASN"T GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU.  Maybe if more people had the guts to stand up when some one cross a line on the Internet or in real life then we might see people treating people with more respect and think before they talk or type.  It's so easy to hide behind a screen and be anything you want.  If I see some thing I don't like I will speak up. If I make a mistake I will be the first to say "MY BAD" which is the stupidest fifth grade thing a person can say.  But that is the way we have become. 

Again if you forgot what I said all I was mad about was the way he was not talking to me (the person with the problem) but to every one else.  Did  I come across pissed....yes because I was.  Did I apologize...yes I did if I miss read his post..  Or in your way....MY BAD.  And lastly I didn't call him stupid for his information. I called him stupid for the way he put it out there. You have a problem with that...to bad. 

I was excited to get a new tub and was excited to show it on here.  A private msg from Dr. Spa would have worked fine to ask me about the connections. 

If you think I'm an ass or rude or anything else you want to add, that is fine. We can all have our opinion.  I will bend over backwards to help anyone if I can.  I will never try and be rude. Looking back on my first post to Dr Spa I could of handled it better and to Dr Spa a 12 pack is on it's way to you. My way of saying "MY BAD".

Thats exactly why I called you out, I'm glad you understand.

spatech_two if you feel better having the last word then you win.....enjoy the victory

[Hot Spring Ace]

I did a little research on my own. I found the laws for the hot tub in my area  "All switching devices must be located at least 5 feet from INSIDE WALLS of hot tub or separated by a solid fence or wall". (NEC 680.22 (D)).   GFI outlet 5'4"  Box behind  tub 5"0" all measurements to the closest inside point of the tub.  Now WE can all sleep better. 

Dr. Spa thank you for making me aware of what you saw and could have been a problem.  I honestly do feel better that everything is where it should be. 

I do have a question.  Why in my kitchen do I have 5 GFI outlets within 5 feet to my sink?  Why does the GFI outlet by the hot tub need to be 5' away from the tub?

"To bad you have no idea what you are talking about."

"and again if you would ask before making a stupid statement"

I'm pretty sure you didn't hurt his feelings but the next time someone (in this case a long time professional in the industry) tells you something that differs from the facts as you know them, you might want to temporarily censor your rude thoughts and do the research to determeine whether he could possibly have a point before you slam him as being stupid. A general apology in your follow-up would have at least been nice but it wouldn't have followed the pattern.

You are 100% right in what you say.  The reason I said what i said was the way he said it  "has any one noticed"  It should have been "Bimmerdog I think the outlets might be to close. You might want to check them"  I would have said "thank you for your concern and I will look into it". 

When some one post a picture and you see something that you think is wrong, you let the person who posted the picture know your concerns. You speak to the person.  If Dr Spa feels he did do that I do apologize for my response to him. But in my eyes he was not talking to me but talking to the forum.  If I came back and said "screw you your wrong" Then you bring in others to get their opinions.  It was to me the way Dr. Spa wrote his post.   He is totally correct but again this is the Internet.  I look at it this way.  If IM at Dr Spas house and I see some thing wrong I don't run out into the street and yell for every one to hear about what I think is his problem. 

I did learn from Dr Spa comments. I did go and find the code. I did measure for myself.  I did find the City Inspector was spot on to the codes.  So bottom line we can all be happy.

Even if you didn't appreciate his approach, you should have done your homework before calling him out as wrong and stupid. This is an Internet forum, please don't expect everyone to follow your personal rules of etiquette.  IMHO, a simple "my bad" would go a lot further than your explanation as to how your inappropriate response was driven by the manner in which he formed his statements.

Well I can see my last post JUST WASN"T GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU.  Maybe if more people had the guts to stand up when some one cross a line on the Internet or in real life then we might see people treating people with more respect and think before they talk or type.  It's so easy to hide behind a screen and be anything you want.  If I see some thing I don't like I will speak up. If I make a mistake I will be the first to say "MY BAD" which is the stupidest fifth grade thing a person can say.  But that is the way we have become. 

Again if you forgot what I said all I was mad about was the way he was not talking to me (the person with the problem) but to every one else.  Did  I come across pissed....yes because I was.  Did I apologize...yes I did if I miss read his post..  Or in your way....MY BAD.  And lastly I didn't call him stupid for his information. I called him stupid for the way he put it out there. You have a problem with that...to bad. 

I was excited to get a new tub and was excited to show it on here.  A private msg from Dr. Spa would have worked fine to ask me about the connections. 

If you think I'm an ass or rude or anything else you want to add, that is fine. We can all have our opinion.  I will bend over backwards to help anyone if I can.  I will never try and be rude. Looking back on my first post to Dr Spa I could of handled it better and to Dr Spa a 12 pack is on it's way to you. My way of saying "MY BAD".

Thats exactly why I called you out, I'm glad you understand.

spatech_two if you feel better having the last word then you win.....enjoy the victory

Bimmer you missed an oppurtunity to clear this up immediately following your out of line response by just admitting your mistake without use of the word "but". You're only digging a deeper hole every time you respond with a semi-apology/explanation. Do yourself a favor and toss away your shovel.

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

HEY ! ! ! ! The guy's sending my a 12 pack of Guinness! Lets just drop it and leave it alone...and I'll share with y'all.

[bimmerdog]

Hot Spring Ace
I didn't miss anything.  You and spatech_two are having trouble letting it go.  Dr Spa and I are OK with every thing now.  Dr Spa was right in questioning my set up. I didn't agree with the way he did it.  That is just my opinion and i said what I said just as he said what he said.  Which he had every right to say. 

This reminds me of my favorite topic I started asking for proof on Hot Springs no bypass and filter system.  It was said to me many times to just let it go. I did let it go and locked the thread myself because of after 4 pages no one could PROVE the system was better.   So take the advise that was giving to me on that post and just let it go.  I need to go I'M heading over to Dr Spa's to drink some Guinness