Two questions for the smart ones

[Spatech_tuo]

Do you not think Arctic Spas has not done some thing like this with their heat system or Sundance with their  filter system.

You're a new spa buyer and no one talked about the Arctic testing lately yet you knew of this? You ether have used Google a lot or you're not really a new consumer. Either way, no one here is interested in any talk of independent testing unless it is done independent of the manufacturer. If its commissioned by the manufacturer it will be scoffed at.

"No one has talked about Arctic testing lately"  OMG are you serious.  I went on their website and read it all by myself.  It is their big selling point. Just as all hot tub companies have their own big selling points. 
Arctic Spas = better heating system. Why because they say so. 
Hot Springs =  no bypass and 5 filters make the water cleaner.  Why because they say so
Sundance =  Filter in a filter cleans the water better. Why because they say so.
All this information is on their websites not made up by me.

Sorry for not being a SHEEP and believing every thing that a salesman tells me or what "some guys" say on the Internet.  I do a lot of research on ANYTHING I buy that cost a lot of money. A hot tub falls into this category.  If some one says their product is leaps and bounds ahead of the competition and do nothing but talk shit about the competition they better have some proof of what they are saying. 
 
I play and work for a golf company that I think is the best in the world. When I am out doing a demo and a customer comes to me and asked why my clubs are better then the other guy I never say anything bad or degrading about the competitors equipment. I tell the customer why ours is good for them. How it will help their game.  Then here is the big part, I let the consumer make the final decision with out feeding him a bunch of BS that might even be true but if my product is as good as I think it will sell itself when the customer tries it.  If the salesman would have had the same approach when I was looking at the Hot Springs I would be having the Grandee in my backyard.

So sells people on here sell "your product" not bash every ones else.  Not all consumers  have a fifth grade education and should not be talked down to.   

If your product is better in your mind then the other guys please tell me about it.  As soon as you cross the line and say yours is better then his you better have proof. That is all I was after with this thread. Proof.

NONE of this is news to us. Many of us here stop people when they want to use the word "best" on this site. It doesn't surprise me that you saw this with a salesperson(s) and it happens at dealers of all brands.

The only mistake you've made is thinking the manufacturers should be having testing done on their claims, thats not where the info needs to come from. Talk to Consumer Reports if you want an independent testing. Seriously, fire off some e-mails or get their number.

[Chas]

I don't have time to read this entire thread with the detail that it deserves, but I will echo what was said above:

I have watched both types of filtration on my sales floor, AND spas without a circ. pump as well.

The HotSpring (circ pump and jets pumps are all no-bypass) always gets clear faster than the other types, and a spa with a circ pump stays cleaner than one with a two-speed main pump set up with filter cycles.

My experience, that's all.

 

[stuart]

I sell both types here and also keep wet spas on the floor from both types...funny thing is that I think it has much more to do with delivery of sanitizer (including ozone) then it does circ or no circ.

For my personal spa I chose no circ simply because I felt that if I could accomplish everything I wanted with less components to go wrong or replace then why wouldn't I? With most circ systems you also need to have a special low flow heater that is no more reliable then my standard flow through and when the low flow fails its more expensive and harder to deal with. But then I also like my Ford much better then my wife's Volvo because it's easier to work on and parts are less expensive.

[Tman122]

"No one has talked about Arctic testing lately"  OMG are you serious.  I went on their website and read it all by myself.  It is their big selling point. Just as all hot tub companies have their own big selling points. 
Arctic Spas = better heating system. Why because they say so. 
Hot Springs =  no bypass and 5 filters make the water cleaner.  Why because they say so
Sundance =  Filter in a filter cleans the water better. Why because they say so.
All this information is on their websites not made up by me.

Sorry for not being a SHEEP and believing every thing that a salesman tells me or what "some guys" say on the Internet.  I do a lot of research on ANYTHING I buy that cost a lot of money. A hot tub falls into this category.  If some one says their product is leaps and bounds ahead of the competition and do nothing but talk shit about the competition they better have some proof of what they are saying. 
 
I play and work for a golf company that I think is the best in the world. When I am out doing a demo and a customer comes to me and asked why my clubs are better then the other guy I never say anything bad or degrading about the competitors equipment. I tell the customer why ours is good for them. How it will help their game.  Then here is the big part, I let the consumer make the final decision with out feeding him a bunch of BS that might even be true but if my product is as good as I think it will sell itself when the customer tries it.  If the salesman would have had the same approach when I was looking at the Hot Springs I would be having the Grandee in my backyard.

So sells people on here sell "your product" not bash every ones else.  Not all consumers  have a fifth grade education and should not be talked down to.   

If your product is better in your mind then the other guys please tell me about it.  As soon as you cross the line and say yours is better then his you better have proof. That is all I was after with this thread. Proof.

Must not of read the Arctic "Independent Testing" to closely. The Hot Springs came out more efficient even with a thinner cover. Which by the way is the most important thing in maintaining water temp.

[sorebikr]

"No one has talked about Arctic testing lately"  OMG are you serious.  I went on their website and read it all by myself.  It is their big selling point. Just as all hot tub companies have their own big selling points. 
Arctic Spas = better heating system. Why because they say so. 
Hot Springs =  no bypass and 5 filters make the water cleaner.  Why because they say so
Sundance =  Filter in a filter cleans the water better. Why because they say so.
All this information is on their websites not made up by me.

Sorry for not being a SHEEP and believing every thing that a salesman tells me or what "some guys" say on the Internet.  I do a lot of research on ANYTHING I buy that cost a lot of money. A hot tub falls into this category.  If some one says their product is leaps and bounds ahead of the competition and do nothing but talk shit about the competition they better have some proof of what they are saying. 
 
I play and work for a golf company that I think is the best in the world. When I am out doing a demo and a customer comes to me and asked why my clubs are better then the other guy I never say anything bad or degrading about the competitors equipment. I tell the customer why ours is good for them. How it will help their game.  Then here is the big part, I let the consumer make the final decision with out feeding him a bunch of BS that might even be true but if my product is as good as I think it will sell itself when the customer tries it.  If the salesman would have had the same approach when I was looking at the Hot Springs I would be having the Grandee in my backyard.

So sells people on here sell "your product" not bash every ones else.  Not all consumers  have a fifth grade education and should not be talked down to.   

If your product is better in your mind then the other guys please tell me about it.  As soon as you cross the line and say yours is better then his you better have proof. That is all I was after with this thread. Proof.

Must not of read the Arctic "Independent Testing" to closely. The Hot Springs came out more efficient even with a thinner cover. Which by the way is the most important thing in maintaining water temp.

I have to say, I guess we should all keep better records of "cost of ownership" of spas.  It just seems ridiculous to me that we're all fine dropping four (sometimes five) figures on a luxury item (not including landscaping, or deck work, accessories, god knows what else) and then we obsess and brag about efficiency when it likely adds a few bucks per year to the actual cost. 

Its a sunk cost, you've dropped your cash, its in the backyard.  Just relax and enjoy it.

[bimmerdog]

"No one has talked about Arctic testing lately"  OMG are you serious.  I went on their website and read it all by myself.  It is their big selling point. Just as all hot tub companies have their own big selling points. 
Arctic Spas = better heating system. Why because they say so. 
Hot Springs =  no bypass and 5 filters make the water cleaner.  Why because they say so
Sundance =  Filter in a filter cleans the water better. Why because they say so.
All this information is on their websites not made up by me.

Sorry for not being a SHEEP and believing every thing that a salesman tells me or what "some guys" say on the Internet.  I do a lot of research on ANYTHING I buy that cost a lot of money. A hot tub falls into this category.  If some one says their product is leaps and bounds ahead of the competition and do nothing but talk shit about the competition they better have some proof of what they are saying. 
 
I play and work for a golf company that I think is the best in the world. When I am out doing a demo and a customer comes to me and asked why my clubs are better then the other guy I never say anything bad or degrading about the competitors equipment. I tell the customer why ours is good for them. How it will help their game.  Then here is the big part, I let the consumer make the final decision with out feeding him a bunch of BS that might even be true but if my product is as good as I think it will sell itself when the customer tries it.  If the salesman would have had the same approach when I was looking at the Hot Springs I would be having the Grandee in my backyard.

So sells people on here sell "your product" not bash every ones else.  Not all consumers  have a fifth grade education and should not be talked down to.   

If your product is better in your mind then the other guys please tell me about it.  As soon as you cross the line and say yours is better then his you better have proof. That is all I was after with this thread. Proof.

Must not of read the Arctic "Independent Testing" to closely. The Hot Springs came out more efficient even with a thinner cover. Which by the way is the most important thing in maintaining water temp.

Tman122 I used Arctic Spas as an example. I really don't care about Arctic Spas.  But you did answer a question about an INDEPENDENT Testing that showed the HS was better with a thinner cover.   Why can't any INDEPENDENT testing show why HS no bypass and filter system is better then their competitors?  Some how it was done to show HS was better with heat retention than Arctic spas.....IM going off of what Tman122 said about the independent test. 

[bimmerdog]

"No one has talked about Arctic testing lately"  OMG are you serious.  I went on their website and read it all by myself.  It is their big selling point. Just as all hot tub companies have their own big selling points. 
Arctic Spas = better heating system. Why because they say so. 
Hot Springs =  no bypass and 5 filters make the water cleaner.  Why because they say so
Sundance =  Filter in a filter cleans the water better. Why because they say so.
All this information is on their websites not made up by me.

Sorry for not being a SHEEP and believing every thing that a salesman tells me or what "some guys" say on the Internet.  I do a lot of research on ANYTHING I buy that cost a lot of money. A hot tub falls into this category.  If some one says their product is leaps and bounds ahead of the competition and do nothing but talk shit about the competition they better have some proof of what they are saying. 
 
I play and work for a golf company that I think is the best in the world. When I am out doing a demo and a customer comes to me and asked why my clubs are better then the other guy I never say anything bad or degrading about the competitors equipment. I tell the customer why ours is good for them. How it will help their game.  Then here is the big part, I let the consumer make the final decision with out feeding him a bunch of BS that might even be true but if my product is as good as I think it will sell itself when the customer tries it.  If the salesman would have had the same approach when I was looking at the Hot Springs I would be having the Grandee in my backyard.

So sells people on here sell "your product" not bash every ones else.  Not all consumers  have a fifth grade education and should not be talked down to.   

If your product is better in your mind then the other guys please tell me about it.  As soon as you cross the line and say yours is better then his you better have proof. That is all I was after with this thread. Proof.

Must not of read the Arctic "Independent Testing" to closely. The Hot Springs came out more efficient even with a thinner cover. Which by the way is the most important thing in maintaining water temp.

I have to say, I guess we should all keep better records of "cost of ownership" of spas.  It just seems ridiculous to me that we're all fine dropping four (sometimes five) figures on a luxury item (not including landscaping, or deck work, accessories, god knows what else) and then we obsess and brag about efficiency when it likely adds a few bucks per year to the actual cost. 

Its a sunk cost, you've dropped your cash, its in the backyard.  Just relax and enjoy it.

Sorebikr you are absolutely correct about just enjoying our tubs.  I plan to a lot.  Some times forum get really boring and not much going on.  Having a discussion like the one I started gets peoples blood and fingers going.  To me it's a lot more fun then always answering the same questions over and over.   

If I sold HS I would be selling our filters and no bypass and Moto-Massage DX and ACE system.  But where IM different then a few on here is I would never say that any other company did not make a good product.  I would explain why mine is better.   If a customer asked me to prove that our system was better, I would have to just say "I can tell you why I think it is better but it will be up to you to take what I have giving you and decide for yourself"  That is where IM different. I will never tell some one that mines better then theirs if I can't prove it with something more then "my boss told me" or "I have seen it with my own eyes"   

[Spatech_tuo]

If a customer asked me to prove that our system was better, I would have to just say "I can tell you why I think it is better but it will be up to you to take what I have giving you and decide for yourself"  That is where IM different. I will never tell some one that mines better then theirs if I can't prove it with something more then "my boss told me" or "I have seen it with my own eyes"

You may be different from the dealer you shopped at but you are not different from most of the people on this site and many dealers out there I’ve seen. I've worked with/for a few dealers. I've also sold spas at times in the past as a sideline. I almost never heard the salespeople at those places talk about the competition unless asked specifically and then it was never a smear campaign that I remember. I don't doubt you ran into someone who sold in a negative manner but you have to get over it, it happens and not just at spa dealerships but cars, boats etc. Good for you that you found a different dealer you were happy with but please don't assume most in the industry are like that dealer.

[Tman122]

There are likely just as many bad experiences with dealers as good ones. Seems really important to a lot of folks. Personally I eat dealers for breakfast and can turn any plaid coat watch salesman into mush. But most are intimidated by those types of sales people. I have a good friend who can sell matches to the devil and is the best sales guy I have ever seen. He could convince an Eskimo he needs an ice maker. He has sold many things in his life and still enjoys his customers, no matter how unruly they can be. He now trains people in the art of sales. More sales people need to use his tactics. The customer is always right. Even when they are wrong he makes them right.

[bimmerdog]

If a customer asked me to prove that our system was better, I would have to just say "I can tell you why I think it is better but it will be up to you to take what I have giving you and decide for yourself"  That is where IM different. I will never tell some one that mines better then theirs if I can't prove it with something more then "my boss told me" or "I have seen it with my own eyes"

You may be different from the dealer you shopped at but you are not different from most of the people on this site and many dealers out there I’ve seen. I've worked with/for a few dealers. I've also sold spas at times in the past as a sideline. I almost never heard the salespeople at those places talk about the competition unless asked specifically and then it was never a smear campaign that I remember. I don't doubt you ran into someone who sold in a negative manner but you have to get over it, it happens and not just at spa dealerships but cars, boats etc. Good for you that you found a different dealer you were happy with but please don't assume most in the industry are like that dealer.

I'm not trying to get over anything.  IM extremely happy with my purchase.  Why does this remind me of two politicians always trying to change the subject when they can't answer the question. 

My question was very easy.  Why is Hot Springs no bypass system and 5 filters better then Sundance or Jacuzzi or any of the other top spa manufacturers in the final results of keeping the water cleaner.  If the answer from Hot Springs people is "we believe our system is the best for OUR spa"  I can live with that answer.  If the answer is  "we believe our system is better then any other manufacture". You better have proof for what you are saying and not just proof from your own company.   I have not seen any proof.

Bottom line from me is the top spa manufactures make great products that do what they say they will do.  I have my personal opinions on the companies I feel are the best  but that will stay as my opinion from my research.  I have nothing at all against Hot Springs. I would own one in a heart beat.  If the wife had liked the tub on the wet test I would have bought it. 

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

YOU, can live with that answer...but THEY, believe their marketing approach will sell the most spas.

[clover]

And that is how the game is played.  The Ravens won, and the 49'ers made a valiant effort, and almost won.  There were some flags and some penalties, and they will both be back next season.

Now, Brimmer, put a twinkle in your eye, get a bottle of your wife's favorite enticement, and head for the hot water and enjoy.  Your gonna love it.  There are NO bad choices, and you can only buy one.  It is time to enjoy.

[bimmerdog]

OK I guess I will never get a true answer so I need to come up with another question to get people all excited and thinking.   See what happens when there is snow on the ground and I can't play golf. I find things to get people all riled up on here. 

Last thing, I respect everything that was written on this topic.  Even if no one can show proof   

[Tman122]

Here Bimmer, The Hot Springs no bypass filter system is better because all of the water all of the time is going through a filter. A bypass system does not do that. Its called a filter system because it is for filtering. So the more water that goes across the filter the better.

This of course has nothing to do with it being a needed product. All spa filtering systems filter adequately.

[sorebikr]

OK I guess I will never get a true answer so I need to come up with another question to get people all excited and thinking.   See what happens when there is snow on the ground and I can't play golf. I find things to get people all riled up on here. 

Last thing, I respect everything that was written on this topic.  Even if no one can show proof   

This is also called trolling.  I'm bored.