Sundance, Hot Springs, or?

[Wkerat]

Hi, after reading on here for a while I finally am ready to buy a tub.  I have looked at Hot Springs, Sundance, and Emerald Spas, and hope to check out Jacuzzi tomorrow.  Every other dealer is over an hour away. My closest dealer is Emerald Spas, but they just rubbed me wrong and I was not super comfortable so I have pretty much rounded them out.  The Hot Springs dealer was the most professional and offered a wet test right away and to come to my house for a no charge site evaluation.  Sundance said they will wet test, but I may have to drive to their second location where they have one set up, and was more about how they make the best tub, but did offer the best price.  I originally wanted a lounger, but am debating after seeing the grandee. 

Here are the models in order of interest so far:

Sundance Victoria w/ cover, delivery, chemicals, cover lift, and steps
Dry 2012 display model $8999 + tax

Hot Springs Envoy w/cover, delivery, chemicals, cover cradle 2, and steps
Dry 2012 display model $9687 + tax (+$500 for 2013)

Hot Springs Limelight Flair w/ cover, delivery, chemicals, cover cradle 2, and steps
New 2013 order $7837 + tax

Hot Springs Grandee w/ cover, delivery, chemicals, cover lift, and steps
Dry 2012 display model $10377 + tax

The flair is very appealing price wise, but I cannot wet test, although look wise it is similar to the envoy.  Sundance is pushing a better filter and bearing less jets.  Can anyone tell me the differences between the flair and envoy?  I assume I can get him lower on the leftover envoy because for $500 I would probably order the new one. Also is the grandee worth the extra $? And how do these prices seem?  I like the style of the Sundance and price wise it seems great, but have to ask a few questions to the dealer.  Any info or advise would be appreciated as the more I shop the more confused I get.  I am going to stop at another hot springs dealer, jacuzzi, and Sundance tomorrow so I can see all three in a short timeframe.

Thanks!

[TwinCitiesHotSpring]

very nice price on a Flair, esp. for a 2013 model....Big differences between the Flair and the Envoy will be:
1. jet variety (7 on envoy, 4 on the flair)
2. filtration (Envoy has  325sq ft. with tri-x filters standard  w/ no-bypass filtration, the Flair has 1 65sq ft. filter with bypasses located in the footwell area)
3. size (Flair is a 3/4 person imo, the Envoy is a 4/5 person)
4. control panel (Envoy has a full lcd screen, Flair has a digital readout)
5. same warranty, both can do the ACE Salt System, both have 24hr circulation pump

other things would be aesthetics which are very subjective..things like the lighting, overall lines and design, etc.

If you have a chance to test the Envoy I would...its probably my fav. Hot Spring models because of the unique captains chair (which is awesome btw) and because it has 3 Jet Stream jets for your feet (out of this world awesome foot massage, hard pressed to find a better jet in the industry..in my opinion of course) and the cherry on top is the dual moto-massage (awesome for your back, calves when sitting on the edge of the tub, sides of your legs, etc....If you can't tell I looove the Envoy

of course my standard recommendation is always: test as many spas as possible, sales pitch is sales pitch and you'll never know what you truly love until you and your family try it out (yes its wonderful to save a $500, $1,000, etc. but how wonderful is it if you saved that money to buy a spa you don't really find comfortable)....and always always always do your best to gauge dealer competency

[Wkerat]

Thank you for your reply.  It sounds like the envoy may be well worth it over the flair.  My main concern with the flair is I cannot test it (unless the other dealer has one).  I've been reading all night and seem to really be between the envoy or Victoria, but will wet test the grandee as well since they have both in the showroom wet. Mi really appreciate your response!

[bimmerdog]

We looked at the Envoy and wet tested it.  A very nice hot tub.  We did not buy it because 1. it was the hardest tub for my wife to get in and out.  2.  no cool down seat.  If she had not been there to try the hot tub I would of had it high on my buy list. 

The other huge thing again for the wife was to find a tub where she could stay in the seat with the jets on high and not float away.  The one that worked for the both of us was the Sundance Optima. 

I learned a great lesson. I wanted to surprise my wife with a hot tub and I'm sure she would have enjoyed the Hot Springs I was going to buy but I'm so glad I decided to tell her what I was doing and have her pick out what worked for her.  She didn't care about the things that make people have nice discussion on here, filter systems, bypass no bypass.  That was my job to find out what was best for us and I had three companies I would only buy from. They were Hot Springs, Sundance and Jacuzzi.  I have to say I was way to caught up in all the stuff inside the cabinet and my wife got me to see what was the best tub for us.

[Wkerat]

Thank you!  I honestly failed to notice the lack of a cool down seat.  That could be an important factor as I don't want to have to sit on the side all the time!  I am trying to get my girlfriend to wet test them with me, but she as of now refuses to (feels weird about it ) so I'm looking into the internals and will find the one or two that fit me well and try to get her involved on the final decission.

[Spatech_tuo]

Thank you for your reply.  It sounds like the envoy may be well worth it over the flair.  My main concern with the flair is I cannot test it (unless the other dealer has one).  I've been reading all night and seem to really be between the envoy or Victoria, but will wet test the grandee as well since they have both in the showroom wet. Mi really appreciate your response!

If someone is telling you the Sundance has a better filter I imagine they're talking about the micron filter and for me its the opposite. I'd want them to swap it out with a standard one piece filter which should be available unless that dealer doesn't carry it. Those micron filters just clog up quickly and are disposable which is what your money becomes when you have to keep replacing them every couple months versus a standard filter that works fine and lasts for years. I hate things that are designed to be thrown away when there is an alternative you can clean and you do not need anything filtering spa water at the micron level.

Otherwise, since both brands are good I'd decide based on the wet test, comfort with the dealer, what the deal includes and what kind of deal you can get.

[bimmerdog]

As far as getting your girlfriend to wet test the spa.  If the tub is right on the sales floor we asked if we could come test the hot tub as close to closing time as possible.  Remember it only takes at the most 10 minutes to see if you like the tub.  I also told my wife it is no different then sitting in a hot tub at a resort with people walking by. 

I have to say I learned a lot having my wife with me for the wet test.  We tested the Hot Springs Aria, which I loved.  My wife again pointed out if we had four people in the tub we would be playing footsie because the foot well is so small. 

I have to laugh when I read how people on here cut down a manufacture on how they filter water or what the manufacture uses to help keep the water safe. 

This is what the sales people that were trying to sell me their own produce said about their tubs.

Hot Springs.    Don't buy the ACE system. To expensive. The five filter are good but don't buy the Tri-X Filters when you replace them. Just buy the regular filters. 

Sundance.  The inner filter works well but it has to be replaced in 6 months. Just buy a regular filter to replace the filter that comes with the tub.  The UV bulb does need to be replaces once a year. 

To me I feel good with these two companies making a tub that if I did my part and had the chemicals at the right levels I would feel fine having my friends in my tub.

Bottom line.  A hot tub cost money every month to run no matter who builds it.  Both these companies have their "we have the best system"  I would have been very happy with the Hot Springs but the Sundance for MY FAMILY worked out the best. 

[Hot Spring Ace]

As far as getting your girlfriend to wet test the spa.  If the tub is right on the sales floor we asked if we could come test the hot tub as close to closing time as possible.  Remember it only takes at the most 10 minutes to see if you like the tub.  I also told my wife it is no different then sitting in a hot tub at a resort with people walking by. 

I have to say I learned a lot having my wife with me for the wet test.  We tested the Hot Springs Aria, which I loved.  My wife again pointed out if we had four people in the tub we would be playing footsie because the foot well is so small. 

I have to laugh when I read how people on here cut down a manufacture on how they filter water or what the manufacture uses to help keep the water safe. 

This is what the sales people that were trying to sell me their own produce said about their tubs.

Hot Springs.    Don't buy the ACE system. To expensive. The five filter are good but don't buy the Tri-X Filters when you replace them. Just buy the regular filters. 

Sundance.  The inner filter works well but it has to be replaced in 6 months. Just buy a regular filter to replace the filter that comes with the tub.  The UV bulb does need to be replaces once a year. 

To me I feel good with these two companies making a tub that if I did my part and had the chemicals at the right levels I would feel fine having my friends in my tub.

Bottom line.  A hot tub cost money every month to run no matter who builds it.  Both these companies have their "we have the best system"  I would have been very happy with the Hot Springs but the Sundance for MY FAMILY worked out the best.

I'm fine with people having opinions and I've heard plenty of good remarks and some that are jabs. I've heard them they try to knock Hot Spring's no-bypass filtertration or some used to say the single moto massage only hits your spine (when we came up with the dual-moto that killed that story) or someone might say the Aria footwell is too small even if its just for 3 people and is plenty large enough or one of the best was the BS that a manufacturer in California doesn't know how to make a spa energy efficient for cold weather and you want to buy from a spa maker based in a cold weather state, that one was a classic ...

In the end sometimes the info you get that may seem to be a knock can be helpful and comes from expereince but a lot is just a veiled attempt to sway people but for the most part consumers are smart enough to see the difference. They'll usually be able to tell the constructive critcism from someone just trying to knock the competition.

[bimmerdog]

As far as getting your girlfriend to wet test the spa.  If the tub is right on the sales floor we asked if we could come test the hot tub as close to closing time as possible.  Remember it only takes at the most 10 minutes to see if you like the tub.  I also told my wife it is no different then sitting in a hot tub at a resort with people walking by. 

I have to say I learned a lot having my wife with me for the wet test.  We tested the Hot Springs Aria, which I loved.  My wife again pointed out if we had four people in the tub we would be playing footsie because the foot well is so small. 

I have to laugh when I read how people on here cut down a manufacture on how they filter water or what the manufacture uses to help keep the water safe. 

This is what the sales people that were trying to sell me their own produce said about their tubs.

Hot Springs.    Don't buy the ACE system. To expensive. The five filter are good but don't buy the Tri-X Filters when you replace them. Just buy the regular filters. 

Sundance.  The inner filter works well but it has to be replaced in 6 months. Just buy a regular filter to replace the filter that comes with the tub.  The UV bulb does need to be replaces once a year. 

To me I feel good with these two companies making a tub that if I did my part and had the chemicals at the right levels I would feel fine having my friends in my tub.

Bottom line.  A hot tub cost money every month to run no matter who builds it.  Both these companies have their "we have the best system"  I would have been very happy with the Hot Springs but the Sundance for MY FAMILY worked out the best.

I'm fine with people having opinions and I've heard plenty of good remarks and some that are jabs. I've heard them they try to knock Hot Spring's no-bypass filtertration or some used to say the single moto massage only hits your spine (when we came up with the dual-moto that killed that story) or someone might say the Aria footwell is too small even if its just for 3 people and is plenty large enough or one of the best was the BS that a manufacturer in California doesn't know how to make a spa energy efficient for cold weather and you want to buy from a spa maker based in a cold weather state, that one was a classic ...

In the end sometimes the info you get that may seem to be a knock can be helpful and comes from expereince but a lot is just a veiled attempt to sway people but for the most part consumers are smart enough to see the difference. They'll usually be able to tell the constructive critcism from someone just trying to knock the competition.

Did you read what I wrote?  These were the sales people selling me THEIR products.  I don't care what the HS guys says about the Sundance or visa versa.  That is my decision to make.  All I was saying is that to a customer when the own companies sales persons says not to buy their own product it makes me think about that product and why would this person feel that way. 

There is not one company that has a 100% positive feed back.  From what I have be able to find HS have an incredible positive feed back from it's customers.  It also has some very bad reviews.  As long as there are two companies making the same product then it is up to the consumer to make a decision on what works best for them. 

[Wkerat]

Thank you for all the advice.  I looked at Jacuzzi today and oddly enough they said the moto massage only hits the spine.  I will say that I really likes their j-465 and j-375, but the prices were 2-3,000 more than the others.  Are they actually that much more?

[Spatech_tuo]

Thank you for all the advice.  I looked at Jacuzzi today and oddly enough they said the moto massage only hits the spine.  I will say that I really likes their j-465 and j-375, but the prices were 2-3,000 more than the others.  Are they actually that much more?

Its fine to listen to dealers about what they say about the competition or even what spa owners say about the brands they didn't choose or those that they did but sometimes you have to take it all with a grain of salt. What works or doesn't work for one person may not mean anything about how it will work for you.

[TwinCitiesHotSpring]

Thank you for all the advice.  I looked at Jacuzzi today and oddly enough they said the moto massage only hits the spine.  I will say that I really likes their j-465 and j-375, but the prices were 2-3,000 more than the others.  Are they actually that much more?

funny, my moto hits my spine, my back, my calfs, my quads, my feet....he's probably never even sat in a tub with a moto...again like someone stated take sales pitch with a grain of salt, your already looking at good manufacturers so wet test various models and find out what YOU LIKE the best, not what some salesman is TELLING YOU you'll like. And yes the J4xx models get expensive, but its similar to pricing a Flair vs Envoy, in that the J4xx line will you get more features over J3xx, more lights, better control pad, more jets, etc. etc.

[Wkerat]

Thank you again for your advise.  I was informed today that the envoy has an extra $250 off but has been wet since May.  To me this makes it a used tub for almost a year.  What are your thoughts on that?  I've read on here that people tend to stay away from tubs that have been wet at the dealership that long?

[bimmerdog]

If I got a good price  on the tub and of course the full warranty (which I know they would give) I would have no problem buying the tub.  The other thing is if the tub has any wear marks from people getting in and out that would make me ask for a better price. 

If it gives you any second thoughts about buying a tub that has been wet for 9 months DON'T DO IT.   You are looking at a tub that could have a life span of 15 or more years,  9 months being wet should not hurt the longevity.   If you think it does then I would look at another manufacture.  It all comes down to price you get and how you feel about it being used for 9 months.

[wmccall]

Thank you for all the advice.  I looked at Jacuzzi today and oddly enough they said the moto massage only hits the spine. 

That seems like an odd thing to say. While probably true, that is why tubs have more than one seat. I loved the moto massage and came real close to a Vanguard because of it.   It may not be the greatest thing in the world to all people, but I sure love it.