no heat 2006 tiger river sumtran spa

[tjr]

 IGNORE THIS ONLY PERTAINS TO HOTSPRING

[jaysea]

no rodents it all looks good.

[jaysea]

the only thing that seems not to have been checked is the control panel on top.I have 1 tech out in Cali. that says this can cause the problem, he says the logic in the control head sends out 2 different signals 1 to the main board to turn on the red ledsaying it's calling for heat and another seperate signal to open  the relay to give power to the heater.But i have not found anyone who agrees. all they say is that they have never seen this happen, to me that is not and answer.I don't want to keep throwing money at it.

[tjr]

What color are the relays on HRB,blue or black?

[jaysea]

Blue

From: Backyardplus Technical Support
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2013 6:04 PM
To: jaysea
Subject: Re: Contact Us Form for SN: N1J1165 TIGER RIVER SUMATRAN 2007
 
Jim
It sounds like it is the control head. That is where the logic for the heating circuit is located.
Strangely enough there are different outputs from the control head. One turns on the the red heater light and another one energizes the heater relays

[tjr]

I dont like changing parts till you get to the broken one, It gets very expensive.
I think you need to double check the 20 and 30 amp circuits coming int the terminal block from the sub panel. turn off the 20 amp and check voltage at tb1 and tb3.

The terminal block is different from the old style with black relays
new style    [H2]     [1][H1][2][3][4][5]
                   
H2 H1 go to heater 

1 30amp hot           
                      230 volts across these (turn off 20amp when checking )
3 30amp hot

2 20amp hot
                                   120volts across 2 and 4/5 (turn off 30amp when testing)
4 20amp neutral
5 jumpered with 4

[tjr]

Jumper at 4 / 5 should look like a U

[jaysea]

I dont like changing parts till you get to the broken one, It gets very expensive.
I think you need to double check the 20 and 30 amp circuits coming int the terminal block from the sub panel. turn off the 20 amp and check voltage at tb1 and tb3.

The terminal block is different from the old style with black relays
new style    [H2]     [1][H1][2][3][4][5]
                   
H2 H1 go to heater 

1 30amp hot           
                      230 volts across these (turn off 20amp when checking )
3 30amp hot

2 20amp hot
                                   120volts across 2 and 4/5 (turn off 30amp when testing)
4 20amp neutral
5 jumpered with 4

One year ago the heater relay board went out burned relays like all the rest.The spa guys installed a new HRB, the ones with the blue relays.It's been running fine up to a couple of weeks ago.All of the above has been checked thru several times,the breakers are functioning as they should. as i have stated before there is power, there is 220v to terminals 1 3,  there is 120v at 2 and 4/5, no pwer at H1 H2, and yes there is a jumper installed at 4/5.I have been advised to check this out several times.Even the spa techs when they came out this time checked all that out, believe me it has been checked.They couldn't find anything, so they advised to buy a new main board, as which you probably no you have to buy the whole IQ2020 box, which i did for $500  which didn't change a thing. as i have stated before the only thing that has not been tried is a new top side control panel.I may just have to bite the bullet and buy a topside control panel.This spa has been wired this way for the 7 years since it was installed new, nothing has been changed.Again thanks for your time.
Jim

[tjr]

No problem

There is only so much you can do over the phone/internet to diagnose a problem.  Isuggest you get a local Hotspring dealer/tech to come and fix spa, have them bring a control panel to plug in and check functions. 

Please post results of repair.

[jaysea]

Thank you for your help, i will post back when this gets figured out.
Take care.
GBY

[Chas]

I don't know if this will help our OP or not, but for general information:

Anytime you replace an IQ box (complete control box) in a Watkins product, you should replace the topside control box or panel.

They do upgrade things from time to time, and not all will talk to each other.

Also - IF by chance your Heater Relay Board was the start of the problems, it IS possible that it sent voltage to the mother board logic circuits, and fried both the Mother Board and Topside. If that is the case, you could actually fry your brand new mother board by trying to run it off a fried topside control, or vice versa.

It's a bitter pill to swallow, buying a topside along with your new Mother board, but it sure beats having to buy ANOTHER mother board AND topside the second go 'round...

HTH

 

[jaysea]

CHAS IF YOU ARE CORRECT ABOUT THIS, THEN ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS THAT I HAVE FOUND PLENTY OF SPA TECHS WHO DON'T NO THIS.MY HOT SPRINGS DEALER IS THE ONE WHO TOLD ME THAT I NEEDED A NEW IQ2020 BOX, HE WANTED $600 FOR HIS WHICH HE DIDN'T HAVE ANYWAY.I BOUGHT A NEW IQ2020 BOX FROM ANOTHER HOTSPRINGS DEALER FOR$450 DOLLARS,THEY NEVER MENTIONED WHAT YOU HAVE STATED EITHER. THE PROBLEM DIDN'T START WITH A HEATER RELAY BOARD.AND I HAVE TALKED TO PLENTY OF OTHER SPA TECH DEALERS, THAT NEVER MENTIONED WHAT YOU HAVE STATED. I THINK THERE ARE ALOT OF SPA DEALERSHIPS OUT THERE WHO NEED TO GET THERE TECHS UP TO SPEED, ON TROUBLESHOOTING PROBLEMS.MY ORIGINAL SPA DEALERSHIP MANAGER CALLED ME THIS MORNING WANTING TO APOLOGIZE, BECAUSE HE STATED AT THE TIME THEY  FIRST WERE  CHECKING OUT MY PROBLEM, SAID THE TOP SIDE CONTROL HEAD COULD NOT CAUSE MY PROBLEM, BUT THIS MORNING WHEN HE CALLED, HE SAID HE HAS NOW FOUND OUT THAT IT CAN CAUSE THIS PROBLEM.I WILL BE SEEING HIM ON MONDAY.I'LL POST BACK WHEN I FIND OUT WHAT FIXES MY SPA.
THANKS AND TAKE CARE AND GBY & YOURS.

[Chas]

I will admit to having learned this the hard way. I got the tip directly from the factory tech people, and I have never had an issue since.

Your dealer now has the control head in stock (we ALL had trouble getting them for a while) and should be able to quickly diagnose the problem, and get you back into your tub, which seems to have served you well for seven years if I read your posts correctly.

Hoping for the best -

 

[jaysea]

Hey Chas, you won't believe this, went away for the weekend came home sunday night.My spa is working,it's up 102 deg.and it's 40 deg here right now.
Have any thoughts?

[SpaPartsAmerica]

You need to focus on the heater relay board.  The Hot Springs (watkins) heater boards are notoriouse for going bad.  Look for black soot on small board or on the back side of the box cover.