Does Anyone Have First-Hand Experience With 110V Hot Tubs?

[deld]

When I was having a fence put around my backyard, I needed a permit for the fence, and then an exemption to allow the fence to be along the sidewalk instead of from the back of it.  For both of those things the city needed plans.  I went into Print Shop and started inserting lines and boxes.  I hit print and labelled it with a pen.  The city was totally fine with that.

For the electrical permit, which was just running a line from the box, up and across just under the roof, down the corner of the house, under the paver pad, and up on the back side of the pad.  The electrician just sketched it out with a pen.  The city was fine with that.

Cities are different, but the plan thing may not be as hard as you're expecting.

But then, in my city, we're required to drain tubs and pools so that the water runs into the sewer.  The water is then captured, goes through treatment, and is then returned to the lake.  They don't want the water lost into the ground.  It's too valuable.  Cities are different.

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

"three sets of plans" means three copies, of one set of plans.

[pacificnw]

Thanks for the input. You're probably right; I asked the woman on the phone at the development office if they reject many hot tub applications and she said no. I'll be driving by the city hall later today. Even though it's Saturday, there's a small chance they might have a clerk at the desk <crosses fingers> and I can clarify what they expect for "plans". Since most people don't have AutoCAD or drafting experience and aren't going to hire a firm for $$$ to draw up plans, I'm guessing the basic sketch you described will be acceptable.

[sorebikr]

Now I'm intrigued...If this doesn't involve a deck, and is simply a portable hottub, not plans -should- be necessary as its not part of your unit's structure anymore than one of those inflatable pools would be.  I wonder if you could draw your backyard and put a circle in the middle (or a pushpin) and say, "its goin' there".

Any chance you could get a 2nd opinion on the electrical?  I think the distance from the house may help determine if it needs to be buried or not, or if conduit would suffice.  Goodluck to you.

[HuMan321]

I saw where you stated the ground was hard to work and thought 24" depth would be difficult. I believe if rigid conduit (threaded and harder to install than PVC) can be with only 6" of coverage to meet NEC

[pacificnw]

Thank you for your replies. I actually haven't made it to the city development office yet. I'm still waiting on the hot tub manufacturer to answer a few more questions. They've been pretty good so far.

Where I live, any body of water over 18" deep requires a permit. On the one hand I don't have a problem with them making sure everything is safe. However, the cost of the permit [here] is based on the value of the tub and/or deck, which sounds more like a tax to me... probably more of a revenue generator for the city than anything else. The ink and paper sketch is probably good enough, but I'll report back when I find out for certain.

I doubt most people with hot tubs or above ground pools are actually filing for permits. But I read an article from a few years ago where the local cities/authorities were going after people who had "higher than normal" electricity consumption, thinking these were grow ops. Most of them turned out to be hot tub owners and people growing vegetables with hydroponic equipment, but the cities still slapped them with thousands of dollars in fines. So better to be in their books legally than to get a knock on the door one day.

As for 220v, we called several electricians, and everyone said we were looking at thousands due to the electrical codes we need to meet in order to pass inspection. You may be right about the required depth being less than 24". I'm just going by what one electrician told me, but he wasn't suggesting I bury the line; instead, he wanted to run the cable around the house from the front into the back like a garden hose -- totally illegal.

I believe a proper install would mean running the additional 100 amp line from the street to our box, and then running the 220v line through the ceiling, out the garage, and into the backyard. At that point there would only be ~10' to 15' of trench to dig for the wire -- if that. But this is really outside of my area of expertise.

[HuMan321]

The utility line from the street may or may not be sized correctly to upgrade to 200 amp service. The utility company operates with different codes regarding the sizing of wire to ampacity than inside wiring (NEC). They will not run another set of wires to your house from the street, but may need to upsize the existing wire.

Have you considered other factors you may gain by upgrading your service to 200 amps? It sounds like you are mostly all electric and with just about everything taking power these days having enough circuitry is becoming a necessity. I was looking at some new electrical ranges awhile back and they are specifying 50 amps 230 volt. You may find your self in the future wanting more capacity and breaker space for these types of items or supplying dedicated circuits for areas of your home that are under-circuited now.

Hey, I am just trying to help you justify the cost...

[pacificnw]

Thanks, I didn't know they could upgrade the existing wire as an alternative. I live on a street where all the houses are 35-year-old cookie-cutter copies of each other. Our neighbor installed an in-ground, heated swimming pool many years ago, and about 10 years ago the guy who bought the house from him installed an expensive hot tub on a wooden deck.

The first owner was a professional pool installer by trade, and the second owner, who installed the hot tub, is a lawyer. He made sure to upgrade all the fencing etc. to comply with the newer regulations. I'm pretty sure his pool and hot tub are 100% legal installations running on 220v power, so they got the 200 amp service in there somehow.

The house I'm living in actually belongs to my dad. He's been surprisingly cooperative, given that he's not too interested in hot tubs. He was even willing to upgrade to 220v even though it meant cutting through his drywall and plaster. The main problem for us right now is simply cost. Money is tight.

The good news is that the round tub I'm planning to purchase can be upgraded to 220v. I'm going to give it a try and if I really get into it, I'll consider saving up the money to upgrade the electrical system and the hot tub pump/heater.

[Ibpokin]

I have a Hot Springs Jetsetter that is 110V (or 220V if I ever want to go there) and I have to say we are pretty happy with it.   We also live in the Pacific NW (Portland) and find that the jets are very powerful and the temp stays pretty steady.   Although, we don't run the jets for more than 10 minutes because conversation can be overheard by the entire neighborhood, and actually prefer sitting in quiet, still water.    I used to have a Jacuzzi (220V) whose jets were lackluster, but temp was consistent.   I prefer the 110V.   And I definitely prefer the Hot Springs tub.

[limbery]

I used to own a Softtub spa 6 seater (meaning 4).  I had it running in - 30 - -40C temps in Saskatchewan and used it in those temps...It kept the water hot just fine but if you were using it at very cold temps., it couldn't keep up for more than 1/2 hr or so with the lid off...biggest drawback was that because the heat came only from the pump....it took a good 24hrs. to heat up after refilling....  I then b ought a "real" hot tub a few years later and never looked back.... I'd say they're fun if that's all you can afford....

[pacificnw]

Thank you both for sharing your experiences with 110v hot tubs. It sounds like they'd be fine for this climate, especially since Portland is similar to Vancouver in that respect. And hey, if a soft tub can hold heat in Saskatchewan, that's pretty darn good!

As a follow-up to my earlier post, I did talk to the city development office, and the information on this board is correct: they only need a simple sketch. Drawing your property and house as boxes with a rough measurement of how far your hot tub will be from the property line is all they ask for.

I admit I'm fairly naive in regards to hot tubs, and I've learned a lot in this process. I was hoping to use an extension cord temporarily until I got the 110v wiring running out to where the tub was going, but I've since learned that's a total no-no. My dad is also not 100% sure if the circuit we were planning to use has any other devices on it and since the house (i.e. drywall) is completely finished, it's not easy to tell what's wired to what. So the saga continues... wiring up 220v may not be too much more hassle or expensive than using 110v.

Interesting thing is my house is 35 years old. My friend just bought a house that's only a few years old, and he was thinking of installing a hot tub too. His brother is an electrician and, according to him, his house has the exact same problems mine does: 100 amp service and no lines/plug in the backyard to use. I certainly envy anyone who can install a hot tub legally without going through all this. I guess you either have to be able to afford the wiring upgrades or be lucky enough to purchase a property that's got everything ready to go.

[HuMan321]

House wiring is typically built with 4-8 or more receptacles on a single circuit. The theory for the design and builder is that it is cheaper and each outlet would not typically carry a load at the same time. Hopefully your receptacles are on a 20 amp branch circuit and not a 15 amp circuit. The higher end of this design was more common in older homes as they did not know of today's explosion in electrical appliances. (Think of an older kitchen that may just have one circuit where today it may have 3 seperate circuits)

To find out what is on the outlet you intend to use just plug in a lamp or radio and have someone else start turning off breakers one at a time until it goes off. Once identified leave it off and move the lamp to other outlets in the vicinity and adjoining rooms. This will show you what is all on this circuit and sometimes you can move things around, but it is best if the circuit is a new dedicated so you do not trip the breaker and possibly freeze the lines in your tub.

They make "twin" breakers that fit in one panel space if you are just short on room, but ok for total connected load (100amp)
These can free up a space and you just need to make sure that whatever is moved from A or B phase stays the same as a neutral wire may be shared. (trust me on this one)

As for friends house, yes they still do build them with 100 or 125 amp services, but they usually have natural gas heating, water, etc to keep the electrical load down.

All of this advice is just to provide a better understanding and the best thing to do is have a dedicated line put in.
FWIW

[pacificnw]

Thanks, I'll try that. I'd really like to get a hot tub to relax in after work, so I'm going to do my best to make this work.