Water Maintenance

[HuMan321]

Hi All,

I am a new owner (1 week) of a Hot Springs Jetsetter model. We love the tub so far, but I have questions on water care. I have read until my eyes bleed topics and have built a basic understanding, but cannot find an example the same as mine to compare to.

The tub has a 24/7 ozone/recirc system and also has a Nature 2 "Freshwater" stick in the continuous filter. The dealer discounted a bottle of Silk Balance and included Spaguard products of "Spa Shock-Oxidizer (31% Potassium Peroxymonosulfate) and Enhanced Shock (58.2% Sodium dichloro-s Triazinetrione)

I filled the spa and once the temp reached 90 degrees I added 2 tsp of spa PH down per their recommendations of the water sample where the PH was 7.8. I ran the jets for awhile without air as instructed. Later that day I added 1 Tbsp of enhanced shock product. to my water which the water report showed as not having any measureable free or total chlorine. The next day I added 3 oz of Silk Balance to filter compartment per instructions.

I was told to add 1 tsp of shock oxidizer per bather (up to 3 max) after using tub which I have done and 1 Tbsp of Enhanced Shock per week along with 3 oz of Silk Balance on a different day. The tub came with 2 types of test strips (3 pad MPS strip and 5 pad portable spa test strips) which give me very different PH readings (Taylor kit on the way)

Now my questions...

We have used the tub heavily this 1st week as it is new so after 2 days I brought in a water sample to the store. It had shown my PH climbed to 8.0 with total alk @ 117 and adjusted TA @ 111. I have read here that alk is probably high and needs to be lowered along with PH to find sweet spot. I added 1 Tbsp of spa decreaser to accomplish this. My total chlorine was 3.1 and free chlorine was 2.6 which the store said should be zero and asked if I had left the top off when shocking to off gas which I had done.
Everything I have read here tells me that I need some measureable chlorine level (1PPM maybe?) to be safe and this differs to the store instructions saying they expect zero.

So days 3 and 4 were weekend with very high use so on night of 4th day I add 1.5 Tbsp of enhanced shock product. The next day I check for chlorine level readings on 5 strip and it is basically zero. I then check on MPS 3 pad strip and MPS shows as basically zero.

I want my family safe and so I ask for help here on what I should be reading with my setup. With the above in place am I safe with just adding MPS after bathing and shock once a week as directed? I have trouble with this direction because how should I know if I need an extra shock that week if chlorine is not something I go by???

Edit - We have temp of hot tub at 99 degrees for longer soaks.

Any help is appreciated

[goose973]

I am in no way an expert on water maintenance as a spa owner for only 6 months, but...

If you put in 1.5 tablespoons of dichlor and had no residual chlorine the next day, I'd think something is amiss. Either you aren't using enough to handle the bather load, or your test materials are whack-o.

I don't use silk balance, but I will share my regimen for a 360 gallon spa. At least once a week shock with 4 tablespoons MPS. I shock more often if we are in more than 4 times that week or if anybody who doesn't normally use the tub gets in. After every soak, I use 1 teaspoon of dichlor per person per each 20 minute cycle. So, two people for two cycles would be like 4 teaspoons. My goal is to have about 1-3 ppm chlorine the next day after the soak. This schedule does that for me.

My tub also has what is Sundance's version of nature2 as well as a UV light on it. I don't really have problems with anything once I got to the point where I realized that I was underestimating the amount of chlorine and MPS shock I was using.

[HuMan321]

Thanks for the reply - My post reading shows just the opposite of what you are doing. I use the enhanced shock (dichlor) weekly and the MPS after each use. I read that this is what you want for a system that uses the N2 Silver Ion Sanitizer. I think some confusion at least on my part is that you read about people telling you to use shock either after usage or weekly and both my MPS and Dichlor products have the word "shock" in the title. (Now I look harder for dichlor or MPS in instructions from posts)
I read a good post earlier today that stated with the type of system I am using (24/7 ozone/recirc, N2 Silver Ion) that I may not read chlorine levels, but I should have MPS in the good range. Hopefully that is the case. Wonder if my Taylor kit coming will measure MPS?

[chem geek]

MPS will measure as CC in the DPD chlorine test and as FC in the FAS-DPD chlorine test.  If you want to distinguish between these readings and chlorine, then you can get the Taylor K-2042 though it really doesn't matter whether you are measuring MPS or chlorine and you'll know which is which since they both deplete with bather load.

[HuMan321]

Thanks for the reply.
If I read another of your posts you stated the MPS level should be around 4. Using either of the tests below would that be the number I am looking for and this would be the minimum recommended?
Also in reading of other posts in trying to get a baseline as to when bather load may suggest shocking (dichlor) at midweek (2 a week) I have only read to look for cloudy water etc. Anything more scientific than that for gauging the need for a mid week dichlor shock?

[chem geek]

Nope, nothing more scientific than your own observation.  The reason is that chemicals other than chlorine, such as bromine and MPS, oxidize different components of bather waste and at different rates.  There isn't a good guide as to how often it would be needed, though generally more bather load would need a higher frequency.  The once a week rule probably works well for people soaking once every day or two, but for those soaking twice a day or with 4 people in the tub may need to use chlorine twice a week.  Those soaking only once or twice a week may not need to use chlorine as often; perhaps only once or twice a month.  Again, these are just very rough guidelines and your own experience will give you a better idea that you can then share with the rest of us.

[HuMan321]

Thank you! I will share what I learn after I can consistently predict and use the products. My biggest take away so far has been what the store directed of just applying MPS "after" use and dichlor once a week is that the actual instructions as you have pointed out in other posts for the Nature 2 cartrige low chlorine recipe (which is basically what the store is telling me to do) tell you there MUST be a sufficient level of MPS measured BEFORE entering the tub. (no mention of this from the store) Twice so far when I have measured before I have had a low or no reading on MPS and had to add/wait before using.
This is a critical piece of information and it is printed quite clearly in the Nature 2 manual yet I read posts and hear what the store told me and it does not seem to be as common knowledge as it should.

Thanks again for taking time from your day to help! My wife thinks I am over the top and surely not everyone is going to this level of detail for water chemistry, but I told here after reading the forums and advice that I would rather be proactive with our 1 week old tub than come here looking for answers to problems we encounter after the fact.

[Chas]

Change the water once in the first 30 days of ownership. This is vitally important in a smaller tub with high use. This is a one-time deal, but it works wonders!!

Turn off power, drain, rinse, refill. If you live in a freezing clime, don't rinse: just leave the lid closed and drain. Then refill and power up as fast as you can, all with the lid down.


HTH

 

[TLWR]

I have the Caldera Kauai, which is very similar to your Jetsetter, size, circ pump, ozone, Nature 2, etc.

This is our routine. 2 adult users ~45 min nightly and 2x on weekends, and shower before use.

Tub is 220 gal, Caldera Kauai with ozone, 24/7 circ pump, and a nature2 stick.

1TBS MPS after nightly use
1TBS Dichlor weekly (Friday night after use, about a minute after adding MPS)
2TBS (heaping) Baking Soda (Friday night after use, about a minute after adding Dichlor)

after 1 month, rinse out filter
2nd month, 2TBS clarifier (in the morning), http://www.lesliespool.com/Home/Spas-and-Hot-Tubs/Spa-Chemicals/48169.html
That night after use, I pull the filter and clean it with 8oz filter cleaner overnight, Rinse, and put filter back in. http://www.lesliespool.com/Home/Filters-and-Filter-Supplies/Filter-Supplies/14225.html
3rd month, rinse out filter
4th month, drain and repeat.

[HuMan321]

Thanks - very helpful advice.
Does your MPS level register OK before you use the tub from the one Tbsp the night before? I am measuring before usage to try and get proper dosage the night before.

Is your one Tbsp of dichlor full strength or like mine 58.2 %? I am hoping that I put enough dichlor in to activate the Nature 2 since I followed directions for activation, but my product was not full strength.

Also, you put MPS and dichlor in the same night on weekly dichlor shock? I was skipping MPS on weekly dichlor shock day.

I just bought some Tri-X filters so I can rotate filter sets during a clean. 1 month between cleanings seems long. You are finding that sufficient for heavy use?

I am just over two weeks old now and think I will drain first chance. Cold in Idaho so may have to wait for break in weather.

[TLWR]

Yes, I use Dichlor and MPS on the same day, only about 30 seconds apart actually.
They work together but do not affect each other. My MPS levels do register good prior to use the next day from that 1TBS.
I've had no indication that the N2 cartridge failed to activate. I add 1TBS directly to the filter chamber when refilling/changing the water and N2 unit.

My MPS is 45%
My Dichlor is 99% (Available Chlorine is 56%)

[Wizard]

I know people will say all kinds a stuff about this but the first thing you should do is eliminate the use of dichlor. It is the worst thing you can use in a hot tub. If you ever have the opportunity to hook an ORP controller to a hot tub you will see the negative effects cyanuric acid has on ORP which causes the sanitizer to be ineffective.

[HuMan321]

I am wondering if weekly dichlor shocks bring down maintained MPS levels.
My setup with Nature2/MPS/Ozone (24/7 hour ozonator on Hot Springs Jetsetter) and weekly or bi-weekly dichlor shocks depending on usage. I ensure a measureable level of MPS before soaking (adding if needed) and add MPS after soaking at a level to try and still have measureable level before next soak.

I use dichlor once a week after soaking and add MPS at that time as well. Since it is a new tub and we are using a lot (1 hour soaks each for 2 people at 99 degrees) I sometimes use dichlor mid week as well.

It seems on the morning after - that the dichlor level goes down quickly as expected, but it seems to take MPS level down quicker than my historic observations so that is why I ask if dichlor affects MPS levels. I thought from reading posts that the MPS would oxidize and allow the dichlor to be available for more sanitation.

I reallly appreciate all the feedback on this forum. I have been especially attentive to Chem geek and by using his advice my water has looked and smelled great. I have found his advice to be accurate in that I am using 1 Tbsp per bather hour of MPS after use (Spa Shock-Oxidizer) (31% Potassium Peroxymonosulfate) and adding about 1.5Tbsp of (Enhanced Shock) (58.2% Sodium dichloro-s Triazinetrione) either weekly, or bi-weekly if it was a heavy usage week. This ratio working for me is on a 225 gallon Jetsetter tub and I pre-shower (wife does not always)

I also use the Silk Balance product weekly (which the dealer threw in) and the wife says she notices a silky feel while I don't know if I do or not (probably because I have nothing to compare to as we used this from day 1)

I add all these specifics because I was starving for details to my particular setup (plus products have similar names so I included %'s)  and with all the great help maybe this will be a baseline for someone else new until they learn from the forum.

Thanks again for all the input to read!

[Wizard]

MPS is a non chlorine shock, you don't maintain levels of MPS. MPS will help you maintain Free Available Chlorine as it burns off the ammonia compounds. Ozone does this also. As you use more and more dichlor you will find it harder to maintain clear water and then will have to drain and start over. Sorry this is so complicated as it doesn't need to be. I have a book coming out today that explains everything but am limited to what can be posted on the forum.

[HuMan321]

Thanks for the input.
This really goes against all I have read and thought I comprehended. I know you can get an MPS reading by using the proper "clearing" reagent in the Taylor kit. Maybe technically it is called something else, but the instructions for low chlorine recipe of Nature 2 refer to maintaining MPS levels along with the experts who post here.