Help! need serious advice only

[m_nelsen]

Sundance Optima, Jacuzzi J-365, Master spas twilight 8.25 or 8.35, Cal spa pl760?  Really is there that much difference? Have been told the solid foam used in the sundance is actually a negative if repairs need to be made and the master spa foam is better?

[Spatech_tuo]

Sundance Optima, Jacuzzi J-365, Master spas twilight 8.25 or 8.35, Cal spa pl760?  Really is there that much difference? Have been told the solid foam used in the sundance is actually a negative if repairs need to be made and the master spa foam is better?

After reading the first sentence I would have simply said Sundance or Jacuzzi were the better choices and that Master and Cal are not in the same class as far as quality, reliability and trust that they'll stand behind their warranty. I knew from the second sentence you had talked to a Master dealer and I totally disagree with that salesmanship. If for some reason you don't choose the Sundance or Jacuzzi there are multiple others I would recommend before Cal or Master.

[m_nelsen]

FYI, my first choice was the Sundance Optima.  My wife has got me thinking is it really worth the premium?  If I was to step down from the Optima but still wanted the size what would you recommend.

[Jacuzzi Jim]

 You could price out a Jacuzzi J-470 and see if it's less than a Optima, better looking IMO.   Or the J-365 is a scaled down version of a Optima for the most part, at I am sure is a lesser price.     

[TwinCitiesHotSpring]

I've always found it odd that people will scour consumer reports/review sites/etc. to find the best appliance, the best car, boat, SUV, snowmobile, jet ski, generator, air compressor, and hundreds of other big ticket items, but when it comes to spas the statement is always "well aren't they all the same"

and to OP I would look at the Jacuzzi and Sundance models first...check out pissedconsumer dot com before you fork over money for a Cal Spa or Master Spa

[Spatech_tuo]

FYI, my first choice was the Sundance Optima.  My wife has got me thinking is it really worth the premium?  If I was to step down from the Optima but still wanted the size what would you recommend.

As with most things, you get what you pay for. Master and Cal are just not great options IMO so if Sundance and Jacuzzi don't have what you're looking for check out Caldera, Hot Springs and Marquis for additional options. Otherwise, Optima is a good spa and if you go Jacuzzi I think you get far better bang for your buck from the J300 series than the J400 series.

[m_nelsen]

went looking at a couple local dealers hot springs out, no local marquis dealer, down to master spa twilight 8.35 and Sundance Optima.  Master seems to have more seats for the $ and sales guy tells me they improved their insulation for 2012 also services 18 spas including sundance and says repairs can be difficult on sundance and jacuzzi due to rigid foam?  Also unsure on the sundance uv system over ozonator?

[Spatech_tuo]

went looking at a couple local dealers hot springs out, no local marquis dealer, down to master spa twilight 8.35 and Sundance Optima.  Master seems to have more seats for the $ and sales guy tells me they improved their insulation for 2012 also services 18 spas including sundance and says repairs can be difficult on sundance and jacuzzi due to rigid foam?  Also unsure on the sundance uv system over ozonator?

Try to find someone here or on-line in general who will recommend Master. You probably won't find anyone outside of an actual Master dealer to who sells them and dealers that used to sell them are the best to offer details which usually isn't flattering. The scare tactic about full foam spas being difficult to repair is their usual comeback. I would expect the Master to be lower quality, less energy efficent, less reliable and if issues arise the manufacturer isn't exactly known for being there for you. I can see why someone outside the industry may buy their story and not see a difference but I assure you that within the industry they're not many eople's favorite list and they're often on people's list of who to avoid. I'm not going to respond further because in the end its your decision and I don't want you to think I've got some agenda, good luck with whatever chocie you make.

[m_nelsen]

spatech can you explain the difference between ozonator most spas use and the uv technology sundance uses?  As stated I still am leaning towards the optima.

[Tman122]

spatech can you explain the difference between ozonator most spas use and the uv technology sundance uses?  As stated I still am leaning towards the optima.

Whether it by UV (ultra violet) or CD (corona discharge) I would not allow the ozonator to be a deciding factor in my tub decision. I would use things like dealer honesty, tub reputation and comfort to decide.

[Spatech_tuo]

spatech can you explain the difference between ozonator most spas use and the uv technology sundance uses?  As stated I still am leaning towards the optima.

Whether it by UV (ultra violet) or CD (corona discharge) I would not allow the ozonator to be a deciding factor in my tub decision. I would use things like dealer honesty, tub reputation and comfort to decide.

I know Chem Geek explained why the UV systems don't work well in hot tubs by definition but I'm not going to even try to repeat it. In reality it doesn't hurt to have it if it comes standard but I wouldn't pay anything to add it and wouldn't factor it into my decision if comparing spas as Tman stated.

[clover]

There are 2 ways to sell, 1) explain the quality levels and features of your product, and 2) create fear in the mind of the buyer to cancel their competetive options.

Everyone knows "their" product line best, and should sell it on their merits.  For those who create fear, you must ask are they trying to help you, or trying to cancel your good impressions of a challenging competitor.

As for this frightening fear of what is inside the foam insulation, go to the Sundance dealer, or any other full foam spa, and ask how these things are made, and what are the chances of something going wrong within the foam?

You will discover, plumbing fittings are “ribbed” and “pressure clamped” virtually avoiding any “glue type failures” of the late 90’s.  BUT, as you can see, just the thought has you gripped with concern. 

[hottubdan]

UV is an old technology, repackaged.  With UV and ozone you need to use chlorine or bromine as primary sanitizer.

[PrecisionPoolMA]

I've always found it odd that people will scour consumer reports/review sites/etc. to find the best appliance, the best car, boat, SUV, snowmobile, jet ski, generator, air compressor, and hundreds of other big ticket items, but when it comes to spas the statement is always "well aren't they all the same"

oh so true....as dealers and manufacturers we have to do a better job of differentiating the products. I think the biggest problem is that we people are buying a luxury item and not a necessary home appliance  so the value proposition is harder to make.

To the OP:  I sold Coleman Spas made by Cal Spa this year (due to a deal with poolcorp and my company) they were good middle of the road tubs but the attention to detail in the manufacturing process was not good and has scared me away from Cal Spa as a dealer.

Go with one of the big 5: Sundance, Hot Spring, Marquis, D1, Jacuzzi....you can not go wrong. If you need to keep cost down look into the entry level or secondary lines within those 5 companies.

[m_nelsen]

Update:  So we found a Marquis dealer and like the euphoria good competitor to the Sundance Optima.  While there the owner of the company showed us a spa by Coast Spas called the Journey.  Does anybody know anything about Coast Spas other then the fact they are made in Canada?