To Ozonate...or NOT

[LuckE]

  Newbie here...
Confused about whether to add CD ozonater or not. Have been told by two different salesmen at different Spa companies that the ozone produced is toxic and can cause lung damage. Two other salesmen at still two different Spa companies say that is wrong, and the ozone produced is harmless. HELP!! Who is right??
          Also, I am between getting a Sundance Optima ($9K+ with ozonater) or a Jacuzzij-365 ($6500 +w/ ozonater.) I like the reputation, cost, ABS protective base,quiteness and looks of the Jacuzzi... but the dealer is further away, appears not as dependable and personable and subs out repair work. I like the reputation,jets ,whirlpool feature,personable established dealer with in house repair staff of the Sundance Optima. Spa would be used therapeutically by my wife and I. Both felt good on wet test.
   Any advise would be greatly appreciated! THANKS!!

[Chris_H]

LuckE:
Buying from a local dealer is extremely valuable.  I understand that the $2,500 dollar difference stands out, but you do get better components and a better warranty with the Sundance.  The main difference being the heating element in the Sundance.  They have an unconditional warranty on this component and they use a titanium element that can pretty much never corrode especially since it is surrounded in plastic.  In house repair staff is extremely valuable because just look at Thermospas.  They have to sub-contract all of their service and unfortunately they have one of the worst reputations in the pool and spa industry.  Purchasing from a dealer you feel unconfortable with is a mistake many people make just to save a few dollars.  I would guess they would have spent the extra two thousand to feel completely comfortable with thier purchase.
Please ask if you have any more questions.
Chris H.

[Chris_H]

Oh and I didn't answer your first question, I would recommend a ozonator as long as it is a corona discharge style ozonator.  Sundance Spas use both types.  The CD ozonator is pretty much maintanance free compared to the UV ozonator.
My guess is the Jacuzzi Premium dealer does not recommend the ozone.  If this is the case it is because they have no idea how to install one.  This is the first red flag for a dealer.
Chris H.

[Julie]

Not sure much about the ozone issue: it was included in a package deal in my tub (which should arrive today), and I decided should I not like the odor, or find it causes trouble with water care, I would disable it.

But about the Optima/J365 choice.  I would usually say go with the dealer which servicing you trust the most (by the way, the sub doing service may be very good: ask to talk to him, if they are using always the same one).  But in your case, the price difference is overwhelming , so you have to balance that into the equation.  Just for reference: it was around 1500$CDN for me: same dealer selling both.  You should really clear out this issue about servicing with dealers and in you head, but if you decide about the Sundance, I think you may be able to lower the price a bit.  I've seen people paying 7500$ for this tub.  Maybe you can't get as low as this, knowing not every dealer has the same overhead, but it should go down.  Heck, I paid 9500$CDN for my Cameo.  By the way, the Optima was great (foot jets especially), we wet tested it at first just for a feel, cause they didn't have a Cameo filled up, but we wanted the lounger...

Good luck!

[Gary]

Ozone is beneficial if the spa is designed properly. You must have a contact chamber to keep the ozone in solution for the proper amount of time. Depending on water flow rate the contact chamber size will vary. Ask the dealer for length of the chamber and what the water flow is. 10’ minimum for a low flow system and 25’ for a higher flow system. This will make the ozonator more efficient and have virtually no off gas.

I do not care for the CD type ozonator, as they require maintenance. A solid state fired ozone is a better way to go and requires 0 maintenance.

Gary

[wmccall]

Not sure much about the ozone issue: it was included in a package deal in my tub (which should arrive today), and I decided should I not like the odor, or find it causes trouble with water care, I would disable it.

It shouldn't cause trouble with water care, it should help, though I've never seen independent scientific testing  specific to hot tubs to support it.

If someone tells you the benefits of ozone they may say that it is scientific fact that ozone kills bacteria, but I've never seen testing data in a hot tub.  

Also if you do get ozone, there are two types as the previous reply stated UV and CD.  I can't back up there claim that CD is more maintenance free.  Based on how it works I would think the opposite, but that is pure speculation.   I have read that Corona Discharge is more efficient in delivering ozone to water than UV, but I have never seen data as to support how much ozone either type puts in a tub and how that figure would compare with the amount needed to be effective.  

To me there is the possability that the entire ozone issue related to spas is pure snake oil even if the theory is sound. The whole industry is kind of vague on its use with statements like "You will need less sanitizer" Which is based on sound theory, but nobody can put even a reasonable guess on paper and back that up.

I have learned in my spa to detect the ozone smell when I first lift the cover (not real offensive and you don't notice at all once the cover is open.) So, if my ozonator dies and if I find myself having to add more sanitizer, maybe I will consider getting it fixed.

I

[ZzTop]

Ozone has been successfully used in municipal water purification systems for many years.  It is just beginning to be used in dentistry.  Painless, drillless tooth repair.

Ozone use in hot tubs seems to be offered by most major hot tub manuafactures.
There is lots of controversy as to its effectiveness.  It offers reduced use of other sanitizers however some sanitizer is still required.  Ozinator UV bulbs have to be replaced every two years and Corona Discharge type units require chip replacement every year, which of course are an added expense.

Here are some links on the subject:

http://www.cee.vt.edu/program_areas/environmental/teach/wtprimer/ozone/ozone.html

http://www.gewater.com/library/tp/844_Ozonation_.jsp

http://www.rhtubs.com/o3faq.htm

http://www.poolandspa.com/page84.htm

http://www.httg.com/faqs_ozone.htm

http://www.hotspring.com/Built/water_care.html

http://www.poolcenter.com/ozone_eclipse_poolstor.htm

http://www.hottubessentials.ca/spa_ozozator_water_purifier_corona.asp

regards Zz

[Gary]

ZZ you are mostly correct, but the newer Solid State ozonators will last years without doing changing the bulb. The ballast fired ones will only last about 9000 hours.

Gary

[tony]

The sundance cd ozonator does not need a yearly chip change as some others do.  As Chris H said, they are pretty much maintenance free.

[Gary]

They may not require changing but they do require cleaning.

Gary

[tony]

Gary and others

Is cleaning the ozonator something that requires a service tech or is it something an owner can do?

[Gary]

Depends on the person. I do not like my customers in the equipment at all. The ones that think they now how to work on stuff usually are the ones that mess stuff up.

Gary

[tony]

Agreed, lol.  Thanks for the info.  I had better give a call to my dealer.  My ozone unit is going on two years old.

[chaz]

Okay, now that most of you have sorted through that I am left with one question: How often should I have my dealer out to clean it?

[Shut_Down_Stranger]

Ozone is a strong disinfectant, much stronger than chlorine and is a very effective germacide or primary disinfectant. Using ozone allows you to use a weaker secondary disinfectant (such as bromine), at lower concentrations. Despite comments made to the contrary,  the science behind ozone as means of water treatment (as a germacide and oxidant) is technically  sound.

I would imagine that if you breathed ozone gas for a long period of time, that would not be a good thing. The same can be stated for chlorine.

I could go into the math behind ozone and why it lowers the demand on the secondary disinfectant, but let's just say that ozone, as the primary disinfectant, is consumed before the seconadary disinfectant.

Ozone, is a very reactive chemical that is only slighly soluble in water. Unlike chlorine or bromine will disapate quickly and will not retain a chemical residual.

Ozone can be made using UV (lights eventially burn out) or corona discharge (CD) (slowly becomes electrostatically charged or dirty) and will be need to be replaced as well. The CD approach is commonly used in municipal water treatment.

Mixing of ozone with water is very important and the Massi inductor does a good job at this, and a mixing chamber is will help as well.  

The plastic used for mixing the ozone is important as the ozone will oxidize (degrade) many materials. Generic PVC flexible hoses will become brittle after a time.

At very high concentrations ozone will smell like fresh air after a tunderstorm. But I doubt that a spa could produce that much ozone.

Some suppliers allow you to turn off the ozone generator if your are in the tub.