Battle of the Manufacturers

[dazedandconfused]

I am looking at Sundance, HS, D1.

On average (not dealing with a specific model), what does each of these three have that the others dont? Ie, what makes one better then the other.

I still havent confirmed if D1's bottom is wood (yuck!) or is it covered with plastic (like Sundance) or foam (HS).

Here is my list:

SD - Cameo
HS - Vista
D1 - Chairman2

Basically, aren't these the same?  Any thoughts out there?

I ready to pull the trigger but am unsure of which on!  In the next week, I plan to again wet test these 3 back to back.

[wmccall]

I like the seat layout and foot space of the Sundance. (I haven't wet tested any of those, but you did ask for any thoughts.  Does the hot spring have a digital temp readoout and controls from inside the tub? I couldn't see in the picture on thier site.

[Spa_Tech]

"I still havent confirmed if D1's bottom is wood (yuck!) or is it covered with plastic (like Sundance) or foam (HS). "

Dimension One's bases are made of pressure treated ground contact lumber- Their is a ABS plastic sheet covering the bottom as well.

As for differences-

Dimension One is the shallowest at 35.5 inches deep
HotSpring boasts the greatest amount of filtration space at 325 sqft. and Sundance is the only one of your selected spas that does not have a 24 hour circulation pump. Dimension One is the only one of the spas offering a lifetime warranty on their Ultra life shell.

What does this all mean?... It means that youre going to have to make a decision between three similar nationally known spas.

Have you shopped your dealer?

Perhaps instead of flipping a coin over which product is better, maybe you could do some investigating about the dealer support for each product.

How many years each of them been in business? What do their competition say about them? Their customers? Do they have an in house service tech? How long they been repairing spas? Do they only work on their own product, or do they work on everything?

Ask some questions, find out-- I think you will find your answer there rather than spliting hairs over which hot tub to buy.

[Mendocino101]

" Dimension One is the only one of the spas offering a lifetime warranty on their Ultra life shell.

.

It is my understanding that lifetime warranty's..are actually defined by different states laws. For example in Calif 7 years is said to cover the title of "life time warranty"...does any one know if this is correct...I hope this is not to far off subject for this thread...

[Electro]

Spa Tech,

According to the Sundance sales brochure (page 16), their spas have 24 hour circulation pumps.

Electro

[Spa_Tech]

Electro-

Small distinction here I suppose- but if you want to program Sundance's circulation pump to be 24 hour filtration you can- but effectively its programmed filtration. Aside from summer timer functions, neither HotSpring or Dimension One do not have 'off/on' programming for their 24 hour pump.

Id be curious to see if the factory presets default to 24 hour circulation or not. Anyone?

[Brewman]

Not sure if all Sundace spas are the same in this regard, but ours has a circulation pump that comes pre set to run 24 hours per day.  This runs water thru the microfilter continuously, and will also provide heated water if called for.
 There is another filtering cycle which uses the large  pump and the main filter.  This comes pre set from the factory to run for 30 minutes every 6 hours.  This factory programming can be set by the user for longer or shorter times, as the owner sees fit.  

[tony]

Sundance spas come factory programmed to run the circ pump 24/7 and the filter cycles on the two speed pump for 30 minutes four times a day.  The circ pump filters through the micro clean filter while the two speed pump filters through the pleated filter.  Both systems can be reprogrammed by the owner almost any way you please.  I believe Sundance uses the same Lang circ pump that HotSprings does.

[Chas]

It is my understanding that lifetime warranty's..are actually defined by different states laws. For example in Calif 7 years is said to cover the title of "life time warranty"...does any one know if this is correct...I hope this is not to far off subject for this thread...

The D1 warranty is available online - and I'm on my way out the door or I would go look it up, but it is 100% for a few years, then drops to about 50% (or something) for the next few years, and then drops to 25% for "life."  This is a good warranty, but I don't quite know why they call it a 'lifetime' warranty... A fine point perhaps, but then, I'm a fine guy. Or was it, 'I'm a pointy guy...."

Whatever. Using that logic, I could offer to extend the warranty on the spas I sell to "lifetime," if I just offered to pay the first $10 of the repair costs for as long as you own your spa.

In California, 7 years is the max a court of law will force a manufacturer to back a lifetime warranty. That doesn't mean that a company will NOT choose to do so to protect it's own reputation etc.

[Spa_Tech]

"Sundance spas come factory programmed to run the circ pump 24/7..."
"I believe Sundance uses the same Lang circ pump that HotSprings does. " -Tony-

Tony- I stand corrected on the matter- I was led to believe by their own collateral material that the circ pump was simply programable.

As for the circ pumps, all three manufacturers use a Laing 909 pump in various configurations, Dimension One included.

As for the 'Lifetime Warranty'...I dont believe that its pro-rated as Chas has indicated. From the D1 website...(http://dimensiononespas.com/images/documents/01533-0001RevC-2004D1DomesticWarranty.pdf)

"Lifetime UltraLife® Shell Warranty:
During years one (1) through seven (7), Dimension One Spas will repair or replace any hot tub found defective under the terms of this warranty. No charge will be
made for parts or labor. Normal shipping costs will be covered in areas where there is an Authorized Dimension One Spas Dealer within thirty (30) miles/fifty (50) kilometers. After year seven (7), Dimension One Spas will repair or replace the hot tub, at its option, provided the hot tub is returned at owner’s expense, to Dimension One Spas, 2611 Business Park Dr., Vista, CA 92081. Dimension One Spas is not liable for any freight, shipping, removal or installation."

[dazedandconfused]

Wow!

So the D1 life warranty on the shell is devious, not truly a complete warranty after 7 years!  I would have to pay to send back to CA??

[spahappy]

As I stated in an earlier post, read the fine print. Better to find out now than 7 years and 2 months down the road........         Spahappy

[poolboy34]

Alrighty......lets set this thing straight.  In 18+ years of selling Dimension One spas the company I work for has had only ONE D-1 spa out of 5000 sold go back to D-1 due to problems with the ultralife shell. That customer paid the freight to have the spa shipped to D-1's secondary facility in Ohio.  D-1 then replaced the shell, all the jets, pumps, and reinsulated their spa.  D-1 then sent the refurbished spa back to the customer at no extra charge.  This work was done on a spa that was 8 years old.  I hope this clears things up.  I would also like to point out that ALL warranties have fine print which should be read.  The three spas you looking at are made by three of the top companies in the world in the Spa industry.  You really should focus on how the spa fits and feels to you dry and wet.  I would also like to point out that how comfortable you are with your dealer is a big factor as well.  make sure they ahve been in business for many years, and that they have been selling that brand of spa for a while as well.  This might seem like a small matter, but it will determine how quickly warranty work is done.  Dealers that have long-term relationships with a particular manufacture shows alot of stability and loyalty.  this will reap it's rewards for the customer in the years to come.  You'll know that your dealer will be around to do any work if a problem should ever arise.  You'll also have the peace of mind knowing that your dealer can get you factory answers quickly given their long standing relationship with that manufacturer.  In closing, Watkins, Sundance, and D-1 are HIGHLY selective of the dealers that sell their spas.  So chances are very good that your dealer has an excelent service dept, in addition to a well trained support staff.

Jason,
Store manager for a D-1 and Caldera Spas dealer

[Spa_Tech]

"I would have to pay to send back to CA?? "

Yes.

But consider having a 7+ year old spa with a warrantable defect and getting a whole new spa for cost of removal and shipping to California.

Lets imagine that both removal and cross country shipping collectively cost $1,000.00. That's much better than having to go back out and buy a new one--for $7,000.00 to $12,000.00 and certainly a bonus if the spa is 10 or 15 years old should a defect occur. (I mean youre getting a current model spa with all the new gadgets and technology in exchange for your old tub-- not a model of the same vintage as you bought.)

I dont think thats so bad...

[dazedandconfused]

I read some more of the fine print of D1.  I am not trying to pick on D1 - just trying to research and learn.

Anyway, according to the warranty, the tiles and grout are not covered at all.  I have heard from people saying to avoid tiles and grout in a hot tub cause of all the chemicals etc.  

I wish that made the Chairmain 2 with the Ultralife shell w/o the tiles.  CAn I special order?