Artesian DirectFlow question

[matt_s]

I have an Artesian Pacific Dunes with two DirectFlow controllers. Both work fine when turned to Hi but when I turn them to Low the jets make a lot of noise due to a lot of air coming out of the jets. All air controls are set to off. Is this normal behaviour?

[matt_s]

Doen't anyone have an Artesian and know if the direct flow should mix air even tough valves are turned off?

[Jacuzzi Jim]

  If the air is off the jets should be pretty quiet.  If they are still sucking air there is possible a bad gasket/seal in the direct flow control?   Just a guess?    I haven't worked on one in prolly 8 plus years when the direct flow system first came out.  Give Artesian spa's a call.  Ask for Bob if he is still there?  1-800-854-7727 I think?

[clover]

The age of the spa would be helpful, but my guess would be 2008.  Your symptoms seem to relate more to the pump being on high or low, not so much the air controls, although they may be part of the symptom your describing.

There are large 2" check valves on the suction side of each pump that open and allow water to be drawn into the pump.  It sounds like one of the "flapper" gates has become seperated and is free floating inside the check valve body.  Your problem relates to 1 specific pump, #1, #2, or #3.  The purpose of the check valve is to not allow the other pumps to draw water backward from other pumps.  You need to isolate, or identfy, which pump is involved and replace the 2" check valve, usually within 2 feet of the suction connection of the affected pump, possibly within the foam.

[Jacuzzi Jim]

The age of the spa would be helpful, but my guess would be 2008.  Your symptoms seem to relate more to the pump being on high or low, not so much the air controls, although they may be part of the symptom your describing.

There are large 2" check valves on the suction side of each pump that open and allow water to be drawn into the pump.  It sounds like one of the "flapper" gates has become seperated and is free floating inside the check valve body.  Your problem relates to 1 specific pump, #1, #2, or #3.  The purpose of the check valve is to not allow the other pumps to draw water backward from other pumps.  You need to isolate, or identfy, which pump is involved and replace the 2" check valve, usually within 2 feet of the suction connection of the affected pump, possibly within the foam.

  They should all be single spd pumps though.   

[matt_s]

year 2010, and this issue relates to both pumps and thus both direct flow controls. Both are sucking air from mid to low, from mid to high it seems to be only water coming out. If something is sucking air, shouldn't it do so on hi setting aswell?

[clover]

JJ, you are correct, they are not 2 speed, but they are variable pressure from low to hi.

Matt, I am not correct about the check valves, your model does not use them, however the "variable (speed) pressure" of the jets is produced by controlling the water flow at the pump.  At the lower end of the spectrum it is causing cavitations in the operation of the pump which is producing an air mix within the pump at the lower water supply pressure.  The cavitations do stop when the pumps are at a full draw and operating at peak pressure.  And yes, this is predictable performance when the pump has a small amount of water to move at the same RPM's

To JJ's credit, when in doubt, check with Bob.   We learn something new everyday.

[Jacuzzi Jim]

JJ, you are correct, they are not 2 speed, but they are variable pressure from low to hi.

Matt, I am not correct about the check valves, your model does not use them, however the "variable (speed) pressure" of the jets is produced by controlling the water flow at the pump.  At the lower end of the spectrum it is causing cavitations in the operation of the pump which is producing an air mix within the pump at the lower water supply pressure.  The cavitations do stop when the pumps are at a full draw and operating at peak pressure.  And yes, this is predictable performance when the pump has a small amount of water to move at the same RPM's

To JJ's credit, when in doubt, check with Bob.   We learn something new everyday.

 Thanks!   Your right on the speed thing!  It's been quite awhile since I messed with the direct flow. 

[matt_s]

...And yes, this is predictable performance when the pump has a small amount of water to move at the same RPM's

Is that really so? Because the pumps draw less electricity when you change the directflow valves..that would indicate to me that it is running at a lower RPM? From the sound of it it also changes the speed?

[Jacuzzi Jim]

 As far as I remember it never did change the actual speed/rpms of the motor it was always at a constant.  The D,flow just changed the amount of air/water through the pump itself?   

[clover]

...And yes, this is predictable performance when the pump has a small amount of water to move at the same RPM's

Is that really so? Because the pumps draw less electricity when you change the directflow valves..that would indicate to me that it is running at a lower RPM? From the sound of it it also changes the speed?

It is my understanding that they draw the same amps on high or low, only the water supply is controlled.

This is where we recommend you talk directly to your servicing dealer, your 2010 Pacific Dunes is still under warranty for material defects and workmanship.  IF something needs to be corrected, they can do it.

[matt_s]

Yes, it's the same rpm but when you lower the waterflow the pump needs less power. And I got confirmed that it is expected that a certain amoumt of air is mixed in though the service guy thought that a air valve gasket was bad and this made some extra air being mixed in.

[Jacuzzi Jim]

Yes, it's the same rpm but when you lower the waterflow the pump needs less power. And I got confirmed that it is expected that a certain amoumt of air is mixed in though the service guy thought that a air valve gasket was bad and this made some extra air being mixed in.

  If your talking "pump needs less power" as in "less electricity" then thats impossible with the direct flow system.  It's not an electrical system except the btn that turns the pump on at the individual control.   Leaky gasket I buy!

[matt_s]

Less resistance = less amp needed (my guess). They have measured it with an amp meter and I doubt they are so stupid to make that up given that its so easy to test: http://artesianspas.com/features/green/directflow-platelite.html

[clover]

Smaller load = less resistance, but you still have the same voltage supply and the amp draw can vary depending on load.  The direct flow vlave controls the water, not the electric.  Volts x amps = watts consumed.  If they have measured it and you are pleased with their explanation, why are you asking us for advice.