Beachcomber versus Hot Spring - need input on tough decision

[spudboss]

Well, I spent a few hours at the D1 dealer who also sells Artesian.  Thought I'd narrowed my search down to Hot Spring, Beachcomber and D1, but none of the D1's on the floor were a good fit.  Seats were too low/bad angles, some were not "open" enough for me.  However, I really liked the Artesian Island Series.  Wet tested a South Seas entry level model and found it had better jet pressure than the Hot Spring Sovereign and possibly even better than the Beachcomber 720x.  Off for a 2nd wet test in the Hot Spring Grandee today and possibly the Vanguard.  I've read quite a few posts where others found that Hot Spring didn't have good jet strength which is probably my #1 criteria.  Looking forward to re-evaluating the Moto Message DX. 

IMO, spa shopping makes car shopping seem like a no brainer

[ejf The Spa Guy]

Spudboss,
 great to see your search,, Curious which D1's did they have you sit in.....

[spudboss]

Well, I spent over an hour in the Grandee yesterday and absolutely loved it.  Really enjoyed the large size, found the jet pressure was sufficient, and absolutely loved the two Moto Message DX's.  I had been thinking a smaller spa would be sufficient, and while no doubt it would be, the larger Grandee is awesome.  My conclusion is that the Moto Message sets Hot Spring apart from all the competition as there really is nothing quite like it on the market.  My middle back feels better than it has for a long time after an hour long message yesterday.  I did check into D1's Dynamic Message as VTXMAN suggested, however, all the D1's with that feature were out of my price range.  Dealer didn't have one available to wet test either.  Seems to me that Hot Spring's 5 TriX filter system would be difficult to beat as long as one is willing to pay more to replace them eventually. 

So, it looks like I'm down to the Hot Spring Grandee or possibly a Vanguard (don't want a lounger).  Grandee is nice for larger size, and the 2 Moto Message DX's.  Vanguard only has one DX and one single (which I don't like).  Vanguard is of course more affordable and still a nice tub.

2007 Sovereign seemed under powered with 24 jets and single Wavemaster® 9000; One-speed, 2.5 HP Continuous Duty, 4.8 HP Breakdown Torque pump.

2007 Grandee with 39 jets has great pressure with the two larger pumps: 
Wavemaster® 9000; One-speed, 2.5 HP Continuous Duty, 4.8 HP Breakdown Torque
Wavemaster® 8200; Two-speed, 2.0 HP Continuous Duty, 3.9 HP Breakdown Torque

Q:  Anyone know if the Vanguard (has 32 jets) jet pressure would be closer to the Grandee or Sovereign?  It has two:  Wavemaster® 7000; One-speed 1.65 HP Continuous Duty, 3.5 HP Breakdown Torque pumps

I'm guessing it'd be in between.  Unfortunately I didn't have a chance to wet test it and if it's closest to the Grandee I'd be happy, but if it's closer to the Sovereign I would not be happy.  It is possible that I didn't like the Sovereign more because it has the single Moto Message as opposed to the DX, but it certainly didn't seem to have the power.

[Spatech_tuo]

I would expect the Vanguard pressure to feel like the Grandee as the plumbing should be optimized similarly (and the fact the Vanguard  has one dual motomassage and one single probably means if they had put two doubles in it would be too weak to they opted to make one a single. Then again I would have thought the Sovereign would have felt similar also. Therefore, I think you need to rely on how it feels to you and not how others find it to be. If you really like the Grandee after wet testing it and if your budget can afford it that sounds like the way to go. Whatever you buy will be in your yard for the next decade plus so get a spa you truly want and that fits you, plus when it comes to spas a little bigger is better IMO as I like having a spa I can move around in.

[spudboss]

Spatech_tuo, I agree with you and have heard that Hot Spring optimizes the pump sizes to achieve optimal pressure in all their spas which theoretically should mean jet pressure should be similar in each model.  However, this has not been my experience.  The dealer said he agreed with me that if I wanted strong pressure the larger tubs with two pumps would be better.  I'm still thinking that part of the reason I found the Sovereign weak is the fact that it had the single moto message rather than the DX (dual).   The good thing for me is that I may have the opportunity to purchase the used Grandee which has very minimal use for a third the cost of new. 

ejf The Spa Guy, to answer your question about which D1's I tried:  Amour Bay, Chairman, Nautilus, Natique, as well as a couple from their "Home Series".  In the Artesian's I tried:  Grande Cayman and Bahama, and in their entry level South Seas lineup, I wet tested the 848B which I actually really liked the feel of as good as the Beachcomber 720X.   

For me though, none compare to the Hot Spring Grandee with the two Moto Master DX's!

[spudboss]

Well, I wanted to finish off this thread.  I was able to find a used 2007 Hotspring Envoy on Craigslist for $4k including the dual breaker panel.  Bought it, hauled it home in August 2011.  Been using it nearly every day since then and absolutely love it.  Aside from having to replace a small checkvalve, tightening some nuts, and learning how to purge an airlock after refilling so far so good!  My only real disappointment to date is that I am the only one of my family who uses it regularly.

[Chas]

Wow - lots of input here!

Question 3 - can you upgrade pumps on HotSpring? -

That is not an option, but in the 2012 models you can shut down other jets to achieve the same effect: lots more power on the remaining jet or jets. This is not ALL jets, but enough that you can get a really pounding massage in most of the seats.

Also, the "Jetstream" jet is now interchangeable with the regular jets, so you can get more umph out of any seat.