What's the Best Hot Tub

Author Topic: Another Newbie Help me choose thread  (Read 9506 times)

avsrock78

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Another Newbie Help me choose thread
« on: February 22, 2012, 08:44:03 am »
Hello all,

I'm currently looking for a good tub that will last me for many years. After reading through several threads on this board, I am almost scared to make a pick as it seems like everyone has a problem with every make and model of tub out there. So far I have checked out 4 dealers in town, and after conversations and impressions with them, I have narrowed it down to a couple of brands and tubs.

Jacuzzi: J-270 or J-335
Bullfrog: 251 or 451

I am almost ready to call them and ask to setup for a wet test in these models, but I still would like some opinions.

One of the things I am really curious about is the different filtering/sanitizing technologies that both advertise.
On the Jacuzzi brand, I have been told about this new ClearRay system in conjunction with a special water filter that will make it so that I have to use half as much sanitizing chemicals in the water.
On the Bullfrog models, I have been told about using the clear blue (could be called something else) water treatment system that will also do wonders to the water and again use half as much sanitizer.
Another selling point the Bullfrog dealer made was the whole plumbing in the water allows for more insulation in the cabinet, and the jet packs. I see these as good things, but I have also read on this site about people getting mold and smells from behind the jet packs and that the tubs leak a lot. These posts were from 4-5 years ago, so have they improved their system since then?

Basically any information would be helpful.
Thanks

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Another Newbie Help me choose thread
« on: February 22, 2012, 08:44:03 am »

TwinCitiesHotSpring

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Re: Another Newbie Help me choose thread
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2012, 12:35:36 pm »
out of those I like the J-335, and its not even a real close comparison (apples to oranges) imho...jacuzzi has a 5yr component vs 3 on the bullfrog, 2 jet pumps vs 1, 120sq ft of filtration vs 50, standard circ. pump vs. optional...etc. etc. like I said apples to oranges, I don't know much about bullfrog pricing but I can't imagine these tubs are close to the same price.

oh and to answer your question re: sanitation, the clear ray on the jacuzzi is new but to me sounds like a built in UV ozonator, which typically you use in conjunction with a replaceable silver ion cartridge and mps/shock to now become an EPA approved sanitation method while using lower amounts of chlorine.  Bullfrog also has an ozonator option but it appears as though its a corona discharge style vs. UV bulb.  I honestly have no idea what "clear blue" is but just remember the only approved sanitation methods by the EPA are: chlorine, bromine, baqua spa, and silver ion/shock...anything else is "sales pitched" is merely marketing imho...good luck
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 12:49:35 pm by TwinCitiesHotSpring »

d00nut

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Re: Another Newbie Help me choose thread
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2012, 01:59:14 pm »
oh and to answer your question re: sanitation, the clear ray on the jacuzzi is new but to me sounds like a built in UV ozonator, which typically you use in conjunction with a replaceable silver ion cartridge and mps/shock to now become an EPA approved sanitation method while using lower amounts of chlorine.  Bullfrog also has an ozonator option but it appears as though its a corona discharge style vs. UV bulb.  I honestly have no idea what "clear blue" is but just remember the only approved sanitation methods by the EPA are: chlorine, bromine, baqua spa, and silver ion/shock...anything else is "sales pitched" is merely marketing imho...good luck

Just to get the word out there, I want to clarify that Clear Ray found on Sundance's and Jacuzzi's is not Ozone.  It's not even a new technology, it's an old one that has been used in the treatment of drinking water. 

Instead of having air pass a chamber to create Ozone, you actually have a chamber in which water passes a UV-C light.  What that does is disrupt the DNA of organisms so that they cannot reproduce.

Because UV-C does not kill bacteria, but merely ruins their DNA, it DOES STILL require a sanitizer.  Also, the bulb will become tinted after a year rendering the UV useless, so you must change it every year.

Does it do the same thing as Ozone?  No.  Is it better?  No.  Is it different?  Yes.

The idea behind both Ozone, and Clear Ray is to use less of a sanitizer.  The big difference is that Ozone is an Oxidizer and a gas.  The gas also eliminates smells and will attack bacteria living in the cover. 

Since we are both a Hot Spring and Jacuzzi dealer, we offer to add the two together or you can pick and choose what you would like.  You can add an Ozone in addition to the Clear Ray if you'd like.

Jacuzzi Jim

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Re: Another Newbie Help me choose thread
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2012, 02:30:39 pm »
  We just got our shipment of spa's in yesterday so were gonna get a couple hooked up and see how it works.  Should be fun.   

  As far as the original poster.  I think the Jacuzzi would be the better choice from B,Frog.  TwinCities was dead on except for the new ClearRay system.     If you are looking at the J-270 you should be able to get it on a good price as it's discontinued.    The J-335 is smaller but offer's more than the J-270 jet wise, pump wise and warranty wise.

TwinCitiesHotSpring

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Re: Another Newbie Help me choose thread
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2012, 02:35:05 pm »
oh and to answer your question re: sanitation, the clear ray on the jacuzzi is new but to me sounds like a built in UV ozonator, which typically you use in conjunction with a replaceable silver ion cartridge and mps/shock to now become an EPA approved sanitation method while using lower amounts of chlorine.  Bullfrog also has an ozonator option but it appears as though its a corona discharge style vs. UV bulb.  I honestly have no idea what "clear blue" is but just remember the only approved sanitation methods by the EPA are: chlorine, bromine, baqua spa, and silver ion/shock...anything else is "sales pitched" is merely marketing imho...good luck

Just to get the word out there, I want to clarify that Clear Ray found on Sundance's and Jacuzzi's is not Ozone.  It's not even a new technology, it's an old one that has been used in the treatment of drinking water. 

Instead of having air pass a chamber to create Ozone, you actually have a chamber in which water passes a UV-C light.  What that does is disrupt the DNA of organisms so that they cannot reproduce.

Because UV-C does not kill bacteria, but merely ruins their DNA, it DOES STILL require a sanitizer.  Also, the bulb will become tinted after a year rendering the UV useless, so you must change it every year.

Does it do the same thing as Ozone?  No.  Is it better?  No.  Is it different?  Yes.

The idea behind both Ozone, and Clear Ray is to use less of a sanitizer.  The big difference is that Ozone is an Oxidizer and a gas.  The gas also eliminates smells and will attack bacteria living in the cover. 

Since we are both a Hot Spring and Jacuzzi dealer, we offer to add the two together or you can pick and choose what you would like.  You can add an Ozone in addition to the Clear Ray if you'd like.

Interesting...so cost wise vs say a CD ozonator assuming it comes standard on the tub in question how does it stack up $ wise over lets say a 10 year span? I suppose it will depend on the cost of bulb replacement..$40-$75?? per year

Jacuzzi Jim

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Re: Another Newbie Help me choose thread
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2012, 02:44:42 pm »
oh and to answer your question re: sanitation, the clear ray on the jacuzzi is new but to me sounds like a built in UV ozonator, which typically you use in conjunction with a replaceable silver ion cartridge and mps/shock to now become an EPA approved sanitation method while using lower amounts of chlorine.  Bullfrog also has an ozonator option but it appears as though its a corona discharge style vs. UV bulb.  I honestly have no idea what "clear blue" is but just remember the only approved sanitation methods by the EPA are: chlorine, bromine, baqua spa, and silver ion/shock...anything else is "sales pitched" is merely marketing imho...good luck

Just to get the word out there, I want to clarify that Clear Ray found on Sundance's and Jacuzzi's is not Ozone.  It's not even a new technology, it's an old one that has been used in the treatment of drinking water. 

Instead of having air pass a chamber to create Ozone, you actually have a chamber in which water passes a UV-C light.  What that does is disrupt the DNA of organisms so that they cannot reproduce.

Because UV-C does not kill bacteria, but merely ruins their DNA, it DOES STILL require a sanitizer.  Also, the bulb will become tinted after a year rendering the UV useless, so you must change it every year.

Does it do the same thing as Ozone?  No.  Is it better?  No.  Is it different?  Yes.

The idea behind both Ozone, and Clear Ray is to use less of a sanitizer.  The big difference is that Ozone is an Oxidizer and a gas.  The gas also eliminates smells and will attack bacteria living in the cover. 

Since we are both a Hot Spring and Jacuzzi dealer, we offer to add the two together or you can pick and choose what you would like.  You can add an Ozone in addition to the Clear Ray if you'd like.

Interesting...so cost wise vs say a CD ozonator assuming it comes standard on the tub in question how does it stack up $ wise over lets say a 10 year span? I suppose it will depend on the cost of bulb replacement..$40-$75?? per year

  I think thats probably where it will be.  Also this early is hard to say how long it will actually work could be 2 years.  I know what the egg heads say about things at the factory level but real world use might be different??

d00nut

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Re: Another Newbie Help me choose thread
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2012, 03:51:30 pm »
Interesting...so cost wise vs say a CD ozonator assuming it comes standard on the tub in question how does it stack up $ wise over lets say a 10 year span? I suppose it will depend on the cost of bulb replacement..$40-$75?? per year

The bulb replacement cost will probably be around $70-$90 annually.  I say annually because that is what Jacuzzi recommends changing it.  Even on their spas, it is programed in to have a 365 day count down.  Again, with UV, the bulb actually would still work after the 365 days, but the bulb becomes tinted, rendering it ineffective in doing the job it's suppose to do.

Versus a CD Ozonator, it's hard to say, as you know their a good ozones and crappy ozones.  By far, a crappy ozone would be more cost effective than Clear Ray.  I would think versus a good Ozone, it would be fairly comparable, maybe Clear Ray costs a little more than a good ozone. 

The big deal is, that Clear Ray is found on their entire line-up, standard.  Whether you buy and entry level model, or a 400 series, you will find this system.  Same thing with Sundance, obviously.

Spatech_tuo

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Re: Another Newbie Help me choose thread
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2012, 04:19:24 pm »
Interesting...so cost wise vs say a CD ozonator assuming it comes standard on the tub in question how does it stack up $ wise over lets say a 10 year span? I suppose it will depend on the cost of bulb replacement..$40-$75?? per year

The bulb replacement cost will probably be around $70-$90 annually.  I say annually because that is what Jacuzzi recommends changing it.  Even on their spas, it is programed in to have a 365 day count down.  Again, with UV, the bulb actually would still work after the 365 days, but the bulb becomes tinted, rendering it ineffective in doing the job it's suppose to do.

Versus a CD Ozonator, it's hard to say, as you know their a good ozones and crappy ozones.  By far, a crappy ozone would be more cost effective than Clear Ray.  I would think versus a good Ozone, it would be fairly comparable, maybe Clear Ray costs a little more than a good ozone. 

The big deal is, that Clear Ray is found on their entire line-up, standard.  Whether you buy and entry level model, or a 400 series, you will find this system.  Same thing with Sundance, obviously.

UV ozone standard on all their models? I'm surprised this is becoming a standard add on for a premium brand vs a CD ozonator. In the past with UV ozone I always went by the thinking that the bulb needed to be changed every 18 months and knowing how people procrastinate I always advised 12 months?
220, 221, whatever it takes!

TLWR

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Re: Another Newbie Help me choose thread
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2012, 05:44:18 pm »
CD vs UV -
We had a dealer tell us that once the CD unit fails, they replace it with a UV unit.
My/Our guess is just that it is easier to tell when the UV one is dead and just replace the bulb after a year. The CD ones aren't as visual on failure.

avsrock78

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Re: Another Newbie Help me choose thread
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2012, 07:30:54 pm »
Thanks for all the tips.

Price wise, the Bullfrog451 vs Jacuzzi J-335 were about the same locally.

The Jacuzzi J-335 they had in stock was still last years model, so I would still be able to get it with an ozone system vs Clear Ray. I believe he mentioned that all new models have the Clear Ray and that if I bought the 2011 model I can always retrofit the tub to Clear Ray if I wanted to.

I'll be calling up my local dealer to schedule a wet test next week.
Thanks again


Jacuzzi Jim

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Re: Another Newbie Help me choose thread
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2012, 11:01:02 pm »
Thanks for all the tips.

Price wise, the Bullfrog451 vs Jacuzzi J-335 were about the same locally.

The Jacuzzi J-335 they had in stock was still last years model, so I would still be able to get it with an ozone system vs Clear Ray. I believe he mentioned that all new models have the Clear Ray and that if I bought the 2011 model I can always retrofit the tub to Clear Ray if I wanted to.

I'll be calling up my local dealer to schedule a wet test next week.
Thanks again

 Nothing against Bullfrog in fact I don't really know that much about them.  But after reading their website this should be a no brainer barring a wet test.

    If prices are close or the same the B,frog 451 has 1 pump no LED lighting (option) no circ pump (option) 1 50 sqft filter, pretty much run of the mill jets found in many spas, not bad but nothing really special.  308 gallons  6'7X7'4

 Jacuzzi J-335 7X7 375 gallons or so (brochure says more not true) 2ea 2.5 HP pumps, circ pump std, 2 60 SQFT filters with catch net. Waterfall and spa has LED lights std with lit cup holders, complete ABS base ozone or Clear Ray (option)5 year warranty couldn't really tell what B,Frog was.   Really unless you hate the Jacuzzi wet test which you may one never knows. The Jacuzzi takes it hands down.

 

avsrock78

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Re: Another Newbie Help me choose thread
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2012, 11:50:32 pm »
Scheduled my wet test for Monday.

I also found out the price for the J-335 is a bit higher than I thought they told me. It's coming in about $7900 plus taxes where I thought it was around $7200 plus taxes.

How much leeway is there in negotiating prices and/or options?

d00nut

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Re: Another Newbie Help me choose thread
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2012, 12:28:55 am »
UV ozone standard on all their models? I'm surprised this is becoming a standard add on for a premium brand vs a CD ozonator. In the past with UV ozone I always went by the thinking that the bulb needed to be changed every 18 months and knowing how people procrastinate I always advised 12 months?

Clear Ray is not UV Ozone.  It is simply just UV light. 

In my opinion, CD Ozonators kill UV Ozonators in terms of cost and reliability.  Clear Ray is not ozone in any way, shape, or form.

We've have two spas up and running with Clear Ray and it works just fine.  I find it no more difficult/easy to maintain a spa with Clear Ray than with Ozone.  Personally, I prefer a good CD Ozone. 

Again, there is nothing written saying you can't have both.

d00nut

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Re: Another Newbie Help me choose thread
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2012, 12:36:37 am »
Scheduled my wet test for Monday.

I also found out the price for the J-335 is a bit higher than I thought they told me. It's coming in about $7900 plus taxes where I thought it was around $7200 plus taxes.

How much leeway is there in negotiating prices and/or options?

It depends on where you live.  You can always try  ;)

The Jacuzzi would be more IMO due to the warranty and the 2 jet pumps vs. 1.  It looks like you are getting a much more powerful spa with the J-335, which comes to testing the spa out if possible.  I always thought the Jet Packs are a good idea, but I often wonder how often someone would actually change them out?  I know they aren't cheap, coming in at $300+ at least.

This may be a rumor, but isn't BullFrog spas made with Prisoner labor?  That's what I've always heard.  Take it for what it is I guess.

Dr. Spa™ Ret.

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Re: Another Newbie Help me choose thread
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2012, 01:26:53 am »

This may be a rumor, but isn't BullFrog spas made with Prisoner labor?  That's what I've always heard.  Take it for what it is I guess.


hahahahahahahahaha thanks for the laugh.

I was going to respond with something about being built in America, by legal employees...but as I thought more...that would be BRILLIANT!
Everyone would be on time for work (arriving by "company bus"), and you'd have supervisors with shotguns, assuring some of the best quality control possible, AND you'd only have to pay about 12 cents an hours in wages, with no benefits....think you'd have to carry workmans comp?

(sorry, I tried, but couldn't fit in a hack saw joke).
If you can't sell it on eBay, it may not even qualify as landfill.

Retired (mostly) from the industry after 33 years...but still putzing around with a consumer information website, and trying to sell obsolete owners manuals

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Re: Another Newbie Help me choose thread
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2012, 01:26:53 am »

 

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