SunPurity Mineral Purifier

[Electro]

Hi Guys,

I'm a newbie to this board.  But, I have been reading the posts of the past 2 years for several days.

At my wife's request, we are buying a hot tub.  I had never considered such a thing.  But on reviewing the potential benefits, it seems that this may be a very good thing, especially for arthritis, sore muscles and circulation problems.

After mulling over the possibilities and visiting various dealers and wet testing some tubs, we settled on the Sundance Maxxus.  My wife wanted a big tub, with a large space to stand in, and I thought this tub would be interesting to exercise and play in.  Also, I have become convinced that the Sundance brand is at least fairly good, which is to say - better than most.  The tub has been ordered to get the colors my wife wanted, versus the one color pattern that both nearby dealers had in stock.  It should arrive in 2 to 3 weeks, according to the dealer.  I'll give more details if anyone is interested.

I have researched the matter of hot tub chemicals, which seems substantially different and somewhat more complicated than when we owned a 16 ft x 40 ft pool in Torrance, California.  I plan to go with the Nature2 mineral purifier (which actually provides silver and copper ions to the hot tub water, according to
Regina at the Sundance user phone number 909-606-7733).  I'll also plan to use the Sunzone CD ozone unit and 0.5 ppm chlorine from diChlor.  The advantages of using this system with silver and copper ions for disinfection is well documented in the scientific literature.

I was surprised to find that the Sundance SunPurity mineral spa purifier is identically the same as the Nature2 product, except that the manufacturer (Zodiac Pool Care, Inc.) makes the Sundance product to fit in the automatic brominator space of Sundance tubs.

I am disappointed that the retail price of the Sundance product has been substantially enhanced.  My Sundance dealer charges $33 for it, whereas the normal Nature2 version is apparently routinely sold for $18 to $23.  This is the sort of thing that makes me angry.

Other interesting stuff:  I'd like to tell you about my experiences with hot tub sales folks who were all honest and straightforward, but - alas - several were not.  I could tell you about how I'm strengthening the structure above my garage ceiling, above which is a deck where my wife wants the hot tub.  My architect has provided plans to assure that an additional 8,000 pounds can be supported.  The hot tub weighs exactly 1,000 pounds dry weight, 5800 pounds filled with water, and 7200 pounds with the 8 (175 lb) folks who can sit in the tub.  Also, my approach of installing the 60 ampere GFCI circuit breaker includes a new 100 ampere feeder circuit, for later application to my Krell stereo sound system.

Does anyone know of Sundance dealers who sell the SunPurity product for a better price or whether it is available from other than Sundance dealers?

[brian_tr]

I tried the SunPurity Mineral Purifier in my Cameo.  I really did not see where it did anything.  I not sure if there is enough water flow through the compart space for it.  I have thought about trying the N2 that fits in the filter and see how it works.  

[tubin]

electro,

congrats on your new buy...i looked at the maxxus but never imagined needing on that large...and to exercise in a hot tub?? whew, talk about breaking a sweat!

seriously, i am using the monarch silver cartridge that my caldera dealer sells for $40 a pop.  so i have definitely been interested in other choices.  my sundance dealer never mentioned a silver compatment when shopping there.  i have not had my first water change yet, but the next one i do, i am going to run without the silver and see if it makes a difference.

oh, and i also got excited about your pending krell purchase.  i have always been in awe of the master reference subwoofer...may need that architect again if your going to place that anywhere but the ground floor!!

tubin

[Electro]

Brian,

Thanks for the feedback.    How or with what other products did you use the N2?  Did you use MPS, bromine or diChlor, etc?

The Sundance factory rep told me that the regular Nature2 product would not work in a Sundance tub, because there is no way to achieve correct water flow in the Sundance filter system past the Nature2 minerals contained in the regular device.   They apparently got the best water flow that they could to the N2 material in their SunPurity design.

I wonder what results others have gotten with Nature2 or with an ionizer or with Rain Forest Blue, which apparently contains copper only.

Electro

[Electro]

tubin,

Thanks for your insightful reply.     Of course, I'll dial down the temp for exercise in the hot tub.  The instructions say to never exercise with the temp over 90 degrees.  Actually, I was thinking of letting the temp drop to about 75 degrees, more like a summer pool for exercise.  I remember my younger days when pool temperatures of 67 to 72 degrees felt quite good when exercising or swimming.

My wife will want the tub at the normal "hot" temperature.  With the ambient outside at 70 now, how long does it take to cool to 75 from 100 degrees and how long to heat back up?  Anyone know?

Krell is the best.     I power up my B&W 800 speakers and the sound clarity is truly excellent.  I can't wait until Krell releases their upcoming SACD player.  As their SACD Standard player is better than most anything available, the new player should really set the state of the art.

Have you or others ever measured the level of (silver and copper) ions in the water?  If so, what levels did you observe?

Electro

[tony]

Hi Electro

I now use the sun purity mineral purifier made for sundance by nature2.  In the past, I have used a spa frog.  They both work just as well.  You can use the standard N2 or frog cartridge in your sundance spa.  Just place it on top of the filter, not inside it.  The flow going past it is the same as the sun purity in the brominator.

I am a believer in the mineral purifier system, but only when used with chlorine as you plan to do.  Maintaining the .5 ppm will be impossible.  Just add enough dichlor after use to get the level to 2+ ppm and the level will drop to nothing by the time you get back in.  In the meantime, your minerals will be taking care of any low level sanitation needs the spa has in between use.  It also helps during long periods of non use (such as vacation).  Shock weekly with dichlor or non chlorine shock.

You might try www.shepnell.com for sun purity prices.  They tend to have the lowest prices for sundance parts that I have seen, though I have not priced the sun purity catridges there yet.

Good luck and congratulations.

tony

[tony]

One other thing.  Trying to get the temp down to 75 in the summer may not work.  I have a hard time keeping mine under 100.  I set it at 98 for the summer, but it is sometimes hard to keep it there.  I program my circ pump to run only at night and do most of my filter times then also.

[Electro]

Tony,

Thanks for the info.     I wondered how long  it would take for a chlorine level of 2 or 3 ppm to drop below 0.5?  Also, when you say the level will drop to nothing before you get back in, can you be more specific?  Typical homeowner test strips do not measure below 1 ppm and the chemical test kits measure to 0.5 ppm.

I plan to plot readings from 3.0 to 0.5 ppm and extrapolate the results down to at least 0.05 or even 0.01 ppm.  The reason is that scientific tests done by researchers at several major universities have made it clear that the effectiveness of silver and copper ions for disinfection are fantastic, vastly superior to other current and traditional means of disinfection, as long as at least 0.01 ppm chlorine is available along with the ions.

I'm curious to know how you determined that the Nature2 or similar Spa Frog would work by placing them just above the Sundance filters?  Or is this just common sense?

Electro

[tony]

Electro

You are absolutely correct regarding chlorine being more effective when used with minerals (particularly silver).  It will take maybe 18-24 hours for it to drop to very low levels.  I use a Taylor Test kit and I can only measure down to .5ppm, but it generally shows no color in 24 hours.  If you are fairly consistant with the way you tub, you will soak in just minerals and after use, the chlorine will do all the heavy work.  I like to shock at least once per month with dichlor to get a superchlorination.  Get it up to 10 ppm to do this.

If you place the mineral cartridge inside the pleated filter, you are only going to get flow when your two speed pump is on.  If you place it on top, you get flow from the 24 hour circ pump, which is preferable.  The cartridge will not fit inside the micro clean filter which is the one that services the circ pump.  My dealer set me up this way.

tony

[Electro]

Tony,

I have wonderful news.       You were right about www.shepnell.com and the Shepnell Pool and Spa company (a Sundance dealer).  I called and talked to the owner (Barry), who is now, as a result of my phone call,  placing the SunPurity units on his web site.  His price is about the same as for the Nature2 units, plus 5.99 S&H.

Barry indicated that his Sundance customers have used the regular Nature2 units quite successfully when placed inside the filter.  But, they tend to forget about it until the water begins to get nasty (after 5 months or so), since it is out of sight.  With the SunPurity units that he now encourages all customers to use, the device is visible and customers do not forget about it.  He is well aware of the superiority of the mineral ions, with a very low chlorine level, to perform disinfection.

The Shepnell company is highly recommended!!

Electro

[wmccall]

 It should arrive in 2 to 3 weeks, according to the dealer.  

Let us know about the delivery time, that seems pretty quick as to what some dealers/manufacturers tell customers. (Not to doubt him, just curious)  What a great looking tub, For those who can't decide whether to get a lounger or not, this might be a good choice.

[Electro]

wmccall,

I was concerned about the delivery date and another key aspect of the purchase - the funds.  Although I could have paid in cash, I chose to use the Wells Fargo special terms allowing for a "No Interest Option (Same as Cash)" for up to 2 years.  So, I'll keep my $11k invested for the 2 years and then pay (just before the deadline).  Meanwhile, I have a money fund account with GMAC that is now paying 2.5% and should go up, as the Fed Reserve Chairman now raises interest rates for the next several months.  I expect to earn from 5% to maybe 8 or 9% over the next 2 years.  So, I may get the cost of the sales tax back.

With regard to the Wells Fargo 2-year no interest financing, apparently all Jacuzzi and Sundance/Sweetwater dealers can offer this.  Many do not advertise it or suggest it.  They make their money on the folks who cannot or do not pay it off within the 2 years - all the financing comes to haunt you at 18% per year, for a total of 36% extra.  Also, they apparently tempt you with ridiculous offers of additional money, if you only sign and deposit checks that are mailed to you.  None of this is of any concern to me, but those who are not in good financial condition should probably avoid this potential trap.

I mentioned this financing because of certain peculiarities of the contract.  I was concerned about the actual delivery date of my hot tub and asked the dealer to put it in writing, which he has now done.  It states the delivery date is approximately 4 weeks from May 13, 2004.  This is not consistent with his earlier comment during nogotiations, but perhaps includes an extra week for final delivery to my house after he receives it.

Note that the Maxxus tub was priced with the usual goodies at $8500.  I chose to also include a number of additions and extra cost items.  I upgraded the stairs to get the special ones that match the Maxxus front end,  I got a special cover with 3 folds instead of the regular 2-fold Sundance cover that comes free with the tub, and a better cover lifter, Sundance embroidered towels (they are expensive at $50 each), booster water seats for short folks, all of the exercise and rowing gear for the Maxxus, matching drink tray, 4 complete Sundance filter sets, and the actual Sundance CD ozone unit.   Also, it turns out that taxes add almost $1k.

I found it absurd that every dealer that I contacted within 100 miles included an aftermarket ozone unit, instead of the manufacturer's one.  They apparently do this to their customers and maybe the manufacturers who may not realize that this likely invalidates the warranty.  Certainly the regular warranty does not apply to any aftermarket parts.  Additionally, if you compare the specifications of the aftermarket ozone units with the manufacturer's units, the aftermarket ones are grossly inferior in terms of ozone output.

I apologize for the rambling.  By the way, my wife said to get a tub with lots of room and as many features as possible.  So - the Maxxus was the only possible choice from Sundance.

Electro

[Lori]

Congratulations, Electro!

May you and your wife always have hot, bubbly water!!!

[needaspa]

Electro,

Who was your Sundance dealer?  Location?

I would interested in the same financing option for my Optima.  It would be great if I could call him and get some more details that I could present to my Sundance dealer.

Thanks

[Electro]

Lori,

Thank you.  

I am disappointed in receiving only one positive, one neutral, and one negative comment on the use of mineral purifiers (silver and copper ions, with a very low level of chlorine), which based on the science involved appears to be the best purification system available today.

Have the research findings as posted by Northman on this board, beginning about August 15, 2003, originating with twok99 on subject: Hardness, been mostly ignored?  It seems so.  What should a reasonable person make of the situation when folks ignore the best science that has been available for 20 years on how to disinfect their pool and hot tub water?
There actually is a "best" method and it is not nearly as expensive as some of the snake oil schemes being promoted.

Electro