Bonding question

[MileHighSpaTech]

I will bve first to admit I am still learning.  I was called by a customer who complained I did not recognize their spa was not bonded and they had an electrician look at it and he made a big deal.  I know some spas bond, others dont.  I am wondering should every spa be bonded?  Is this something I should be doing to every customer I see without it?

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

As many electricians don't fully understand what bonding actually is, I would find out exactly what he means by it not being bonded.

[sorebikr]

There's also a TIA to the 2011 NEC that says bonding may no longer be necessary.


Reference: 680.42(B)
TIA 11-1 
(SC 11-3-10/TIA Log #1005

[MileHighSpaTech]

He is talking about using a 6g copper wire to bond all components in spa.  It is to additionally ground spa.  I know nothing about electrical code, but hate an electrician saying I am doing work and allowing a customer to be at risk...so was hoping someone could let me know if I dont see bonding does it need to be added or is it no longer necessary?

[TwinCitiesHotSpring]

he's being ridiculous filling a customers head like that...I know in MN bonding is not required on a portable spa, I'm sure you could make a couple calls to an inspector or try another electrician who will know local code for your specific area....btw MileHigh do you work for the Hot Spring dealer in Denver?

[sorebikr]

He is talking about using a 6g copper wire to bond all components in spa.  It is to additionally ground spa.  I know nothing about electrical code, but hate an electrician saying I am doing work and allowing a customer to be at risk...so was hoping someone could let me know if I dont see bonding does it need to be added or is it no longer necessary?

Curious - what brand of spa is this? 

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

FYI;

The very simple explanation of bonding is that it is done to prevent you from being shocked/electrocuted when your left hand touches one metal component, and your right hand touches another metal component. By running a wire (bonding wire) from one metal component to another, stray electricity (from a short for example) will equalize through the wire and one metal component will NOT have a greater voltage in it than another metal component.

The NEC are guidelines that may or may not be adopted by municipalities. As for any possible changes to the 2011 NEC,  most municipalities are "behind the times". They (municipalities) continually update their codes, laws and relations, and can be YEARS behind the current NEC guidelines. It's the individual municipality that has the final say, regardless of what current NEC is.

[TwinCitiesHotSpring]

FYI;

The very simple explanation of bonding is that it is done to prevent you from being shocked/electrocuted when your left hand touches one metal component, and your right hand touches another metal component. By running a wire (bonding wire) from one metal component to another, stray electricity (from a short for example) will equalize through the wire and one metal component will NOT have a greater voltage in it than another metal component.

The NEC are guidelines that may or may not be adopted by municipalities. As for any possible changes to the 2011 NEC,  most municipalities are "behind the times". They (municipalities) continually update their codes, laws and relations, and can be YEARS behind the current NEC guidelines. It's the individual municipality that has the final say, regardless of what current NEC is.

very good info here and 100% correct...heck I've had inspectors on jobs 2 miles apart who gave exact opposing information, it really does vary, by city,county, and sometimes even the individual inspector which is why you need to check locally for yourself...but for your customers sake don't let any electrician fill their head with "how dangerous" it is if not bonded, because that is pure bs...I have been in this industry for 12 years and worked through out 4 different states and I have never ever encountered 1 single portable spa that has been bonded externally

[MileHighSpaTech]

Its an Artesian.  No I dont work for IHT (the Denver Hot Spring Dealer) I own a company called Everything Hot Tubz.  We are mostly a service company, but do used hot tubs as well.  I also have a few dealers across the country that will sometimes bring me in to help them with sales when they are running a special event and need extra people who can talk hot tubs.

Thanks for all the help, this customer is being extremely unreasonable and I figured I would just have some hot tub people back my thoughts and feelings rather then just saying I knew the answer completely.

[clover]

Everybody wants to impress their customer with their knowledge to justify their value, even electricians.  I think many of us have differed with inspectors and electricians that really didn't quite know "everything" and subsequently turned out to be "incorrect" in their "opinion". 

Good question, I have noticed the some do, most don't, and they have been doing that for 40 years now meeting codes and standards, not to mention the avoidance of any legal liability regarding the product.  How could they forget something as basic as a "bonding wire". 

Manufactured appliances, in this case "Hot Tubs", carry UL listings, CSA certifications, and the lists go on.  I would appeal to the customer’s logic explaining the product, "as it is manufactured", meets all of the safety standards of UL, CSA, EL, etc.

On the other hand, a pool company installs equipment MUST be bonded because the finished product didn't leave the factory certified as such, the "work" has not been certified and thus must be bonded.