tub tripping GFCI

[sti1471]

OK here is the quick version.

I got a used hot tub that is made by a company called "beachcraft". It is a very nice tub, but I am having issues with the GFCI.

I ran the (red, black, green, white THWN wires from a 60 amp breaker in the basement to a 50 amp GFCI disconnect box located 8 ft from the hot tub. I then ran the wires 18" under ground in conduit to the hot tub panel. The hot tub panel had a built in 60 amp breaker but it is not a GFCI breaker however. After hooking everything up, I flip ON the breaker in the basement. I then make the sure the breaker in the hot tub is set to OFF. I then flip the GFCI breaker in the spa disconnect panel ON. it trips instantly every time.

I disconnected the wires that run to the hot tub, and the GFCI turns on and stays on. I took my multi meter and tested for touching wires in the conduit from GFCI to hottub, and there are none.

I replaced the GFCI breaker with a normal 60 amp breaker, and it works fine. hot tub turns on, jets work and all.

Here are my 2 main questions.

#1- I cannot imagine that something is wrong with the hot tub parts because the GFCI is tripping with the hot tub breaker turn off, so no power is even getting to the heating element or anything. am I correct in thinking this?

#2- The hot tub access has 2 doors. On the top corners of each of the doors, there is metal clip that is basically a ground. So when the door is open, it shuts off the pumps. AFTER returning the GFCI panel to the store, I realized that when I attempted to turn on the GFCI breaker, the access doors were open so the ground pins were not connected.  Would these grounds not connected cause the GFCI to flip even if the breaker in the hot tub panel is flipped to OFF?

[EDIT]...
I also realized that I have a 60 amp breaker in the hottub panel, and in the basement, but the GFCI breaker was 50 amp. Could this be the reason it is flipping even though the breaker in the hot tub is turned off?

Any help would be much appreciated.

[sorebikr]

A few thoughts, mostly requests for more information:

• Can you provide the exact space model number?
  Can you describe your disconnect box in more detail?  I ask because if you take a look at these directions here http://www.spadepot.com/spacyclopedia/wiring-hot-tub-spa.htm  you'll see this note:  The white neutral wire to the spa's control box must be attached (as shown in our 4-wire  diagrams above) directly to the neutral terminal of the GFCI breaker, NOT TO THE SUB-PANEL GROUNDING BAR. Mis-wiring it to ground instantly trips the GFCI when energized, cutting power to the hot tub.

[sti1471]

The hot tub diconnect box I purchsaed at home Depot and it was designed for hot tub applications. I connected it running the neutral wire from the basement power box to the neutral terminal in the disconnect box.

I then connected the GFCI neutral wire to the neutral bar.
I then connected the neutral wire running to the hot tub to the GFCI breaker.
connected the black/red wires to the terminals in the panel
connected the spa wires to the red/black breaker contacts
Ground to the ground bar.

from the people I have talked to at home depot, they say it indicates something in the hot tub is leaking to ground. However with the breaker on the hot tub turned to off, there is really no way the GFCI breaker would know this as the spa equipment is not getting power until I flip that breaker on, but the GFCI flips before I turn the hot tub breaker ON.

The unit in my spa is a spa pack and is listed as "hydro research" but after google searching it, I cannot find information on it anywhere. Maybe I just had a bad GFCI breaker?

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

#2-

This is a switching mechanism that turns off the spa when the doors are open. It's not a ground, but a magnetic switch. Shouldn't be the cause of the GFI tripping.

I think :-)

[sti1471]

I am 100% out of ideas then.

I triple checked the wiring, triple checked the wiring at the spa panel. Checked with my multi-meter the wiring being insulated in the conduit.

I am thinking it was 1 of 2 things.

#1- since the breaker in the hot tub panel is 60 amp, and the breaker in the house panel is 60 amp, maybe since the GFCI breaker was 50 AMP it was tripping.

#2- I had a defective breaker that sends the power to the spa since it only trips when those wires were hooked up, and did not trip when it only had power into the breaker, but no wires to send power to the tub.

These are the only things I can think of since it works fine with a standard breaker, and it was tripping with the hot tub breaker OFF. That tells me it cannot be the motor or heater shorting since there was no power to those devices yet!

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

#1 is NOT your problem.

It's very possible your GFCI is wired wrong...with regards to the neautral wiring aspect.

[sorebikr]

If you're certain the wires are correct, properly stripped and tightened, I'd bring the breaker in your disconnect back to HD and see if they'll swap it out.  (Or bring the whole disconnect).  That'll be the easiest place to start troubleshooting. Then move on down the line if that's not the problem.

Sorry for the headache.  As a last resort you could always call an electrician, but where's the fun in that?  (Just finished wiring my tub a few months ago)

[clover]

I then connected the GFCI neutral wire to the neutral bar.
I then connected the neutral wire running to the hot tub to the GFCI breaker.
connected the black/red wires to the terminals in the panel
connected the spa wires to the red/black breaker contacts
Ground to the ground bar.

#1 is that the "pig tail" wire that goes to the common bus bar?  That would be the short, 6"-8" white wire permanently attached to the circuit breaker.
#2 the white neutural wire connects to a specific terminal on the breaker and goes to the spa on a "4 wire" system.  Are we sure this is not a 3 wire system, 2 hots and 1 ground, that does NOT use a neutural wire and if used will cause tripping?
#3 double check to verify what you say, 1 black, 1 red, 1 white wire connected to terminals at the bottom of the breaker going to the spa with a green ground wire, ground to ground.  There is a chance the white wire is on one of the power feed terminals, check these 3 wire connections for correct placement.  With the wires disconnected at the spa and hanging in the air, check the voltage red to black for 240 volts, with 120 volts from red OR black wires to the white neutural. 
#4 ground always goes to ground.

We are not electricians, but a large number of us have corrected simple mistakes that are hard to recognize when you are litterally looking at the problem.

[sti1471]

Yeah the white pig tail was connected to the neutral bar. The neutral running to the spa was connected to a screw terminal that was right above the white pig tail white.

The only thing I noticed was that when I removed the breaker from the hot tub, the red wire that connects to the breaker in the spa pack was not 100% tight. When I removed the breaker, the red wire came disconnected. However this was after I returned the GFCI breaker. So I am not sure if the breaker was detecting something due to the red wire not being tightened down all the way but that is the only thought I have thus far.

I am gonig to go back to the home depot and get the GFCI breaker again and try it again with that wire tightened down 100%

[clover]

Yeah the white pig tail was connected to the neutral bar. The neutral running to the spa was connected to a screw terminal that was right above the white pig tail white.

Look at the bottom of the breaker where the red and black wires are connected, you will likely find a similar terminal for the neutural wire going to the spa.  If so, move it from the common buss bar and connect it to the proper terminal.

[sti1471]

Sorry,

What I mean is the white neutral wire running to the spa was connected to a screw terminal that was right above the white pig tail wire (on the breaker).