Opinions on alternatives to chlorine/bromine

[Spatech_tuo]

SpaTech_tuo...try it in your tub if you have one, ... is it more expensive then just chlorine, YES...but is it a way to keep the water softer feeling, allowing you to use LESS chlorine and or other sanitizers, YES. 

There is no reason for me to try this because:

1) You admit that it is "more expensive" and that’s fine but in reality it is "much more expensive" than chlorine. For me there has to be some upside to it if I'm dusting off my wallet to buy it.

2) I have NO desire to reduce the amount of chlorine use in my spa. I don't fall for the misguided belief that you should want to reduce your sanitizer use. I'm totally sold on chlorine use. Sanitizes great and when I get in there is a low level of chlorine in the water, just like taking a bath and last I checked people weren't trying to avoid the chlorine in their tap water when using the shower or bathtub.

[MileHighSpaTech]

I have also stated lowering chlorine is not its only benefit.  Will you atleast not knock something until you have seen it or used it?

It is more expensive then a 100% chlorine system, but its not much more then Nature II or Baqua.  Steak costs more then a burger but both will get you filled right? 

It softens water, hydrates skin, helps lock in PH, eliminates biofilm build up or growth and doesnt allow calcium to build and will help remove it.  I have seen jets that didnt spin start spinning again.  You can keep knocking it, and I will keep preaching it.  You knock it without knowing about it, I preach it because half way through writing this email I got a call from a customer telling me she loved it and had questions about if they should keep testing PH because its never been off 7.8 in the 6 months they have used it.

[Spatech_tuo]

I have also stated lowering chlorine is not its only benefit.  Will you atleast not knock something until you have seen it or used it?

It is more expensive then a 100% chlorine system, but its not much more then Nature II or Baqua.  Steak costs more then a burger but both will get you filled right?  

I won't be trying it because I simply don't need to use it and see little benefit even if it was almost fee but when I do a cost-value sniff test it just doesn’t fly at all. I have a less expensive, more effective method in chlorine itself. By the way, care to tell us the true and accurate costs are per month or year using AF?

On another post you were knocking an auto-chlorinator because of cost which I found comical in some ways because at least it creates an effective sanitizer while the thing you are adding does not sanitize yet it also adds a great deal of cost. If I'm going to add cost to my sanitizing method I'm going to do it with an auto-chlorinator LONG before I add something to make the water softer while it lightens my wallet.

But as we’ve both said earlier, to each his own.

[MileHighSpaTech]

Aqua Finesse includes a sanitizer in the kit, so its not like your buying additional chemicals like you would be with the Ace system.  Your about $30.00-40.00 a month on Aqua Finesse depending on size of tub and if you have an ozone system. 

It takes away from time spent maintaining the spa, allows jets and heaters to last longer and allows you to drain and refill less frequently (dont get as high TDS because your putting less substance in).  Is it a good system for YOU "spatech_tuo"...no.  Its probably not a good system for anyone who can professionally treat and maintain water.  But is it a good for the customer who made the thread?  Maybe, im just suggesting they try and see.  Most people who request alternative or better systems understand they will cost more, but they see the benefits.

[woodchopper]

When you use chlorine correctly, you will not be soaking in any noticeable amount of chlorine.  Is there a specific reason why you don't want to use chlorine?

Exactly. Often people think they want to avoid chlorine due to an experience with a public hot tub where they keep a high chlorine ersidual for obvious reasons. The two are not the same, these "natural" ideas (which never seem to actually perform well) are there to fill a void created by not understanding how chlorine works in a personal hot tub where you add it after use, it sanitizes and dissipates quickly before your next usage. I'll measure as much/more chlorine in my just filled bath water than my spa when I get in but you never hear people complain about their bath water causing skin issues.

So glad I read this post. I'm hoping to get my spa running again and hope to use chlorine in the future.

[Water Boy]

I'm not here to argue or tell people what to use or not to use, but we too sell the Aqua Finesse, and we have had better feedback on that line of chemical/product than just about anything else we have ever sold. Once people use it, they love it and are hooked and willing to pay the extra money to use it again. From my experience, the people that love it the most are people that have had a spa for a number of years, and were tired of all the "chemical hassle" and they try it and love it, and continue to buy more. I just had a lady last night that told me she absolutely loves the product, and would never use anything else in her spa. I she knows that it is costing her more money each year, but to her it is well worth it. People have sent us random thank you notes telling how much they enjoy their spa all over again after stitching to it.

I will admit that I was skeptical about it at first. I thought it was one of those, to good to be true things, and people would never spend that much money on it. But, boy was I way off. It was the exact opposite. It was actually does what it says it will do, and people are buying it. It has also been a great addition to our pool line up as well.

Last thing I will say, is that for a small local dealer, it is also a great addition to our line up for increased sales. We have exclusive rights to the product, you cant purchase it at a box store, and it isn't sold online any cheaper than we can sell it. You cant say that for Dichlor, bromine, Nature 2. etc..

Anyways, this was not meant to be a infomercial for Aqua Finesse, just thought I would share how much we and our customers love the product.

[Spatech_tuo]

I'm not here to argue or tell people what to use or not to use, but we too sell the Aqua Finesse, and we have had better feedback on that line of chemical/product than just about anything else we have ever sold. Once people use it, they love it and are hooked and willing to pay the extra money to use it again.

If people want to spend that much extra that’s fine but they should not use 1 ounce less sanitizer IMO. It may work fine but I can't see spending an extra $30 to $40/month which equates to $350 to $500 extra per year (I have heard 50% higher estimates but lets go with Mile High's numbers). If people are happy with it and willing to spend the extra $ I won't lose any sleep but I'll keep the extra money myself (and double it in Vegas!!!).

[Tman122]

If people want to spend that much extra that’s fine but they should not use 1 ounce less sanitizer IMO. It may work fine but I can't see spending an extra $30 to $40/month which equates to $350 to $500 extra per year (I have heard 50% higher estimates but lets go with Mile High's numbers). If people are happy with it and willing to spend the extra $ I won't lose any sleep but I'll keep the extra money myself (and double it in Vegas!!!).

500 or more per year over the life of the tub say 5000 bucks. And you still have to use chlorine. Hmmmmmm seems like a no brainer. Add chlorine or add chlorine and 5000 dollars to your water. To each his own.

[d00nut]

DooNut...how can you possibly like SilkBalance and hate AquaFinesse?  They are made to do the same things.

You assume they are made of the same things, but unless you can dissect the chemistry of each one, seeing as they both don't tell you what is exactly in the stuff... we can only make assumptions about their chemical content.

But realistically... I love Silk Balance because that's what I sell 

[MileHighSpaTech]

LOL Doonut, and you hate Aqua Finesse because that is what your competitors sell?

You do use less sanitizer because your not fighting biofilm related bacteria and it helps inhibit the growth of bacteria.  The product was made for large water coolers (much larger industry then pool and spa) 

Just like as time goes on you will require more and more chlorine use from when you first owned the spa...that is generally do to biofilm which introduces and produces more bacteria in the spa.  Lets not pretend people take great care of their water...Aqua Finesse lets them be a little more lazy then normal systems.  Maybe the spas I see in the field are different then the ones you see...but when customers are RUINING their hot tubs do to neglect, Aqua Finesse or Silk Balance might be the answer.  I like Aqua Finesse because it costs less, works better and doesnt stain your filters (Yeah I went there! )

[Spatech_tuo]

If people want to spend that much extra that’s fine but they should not use 1 ounce less sanitizer IMO. It may work fine but I can't see spending an extra $30 to $40/month which equates to $350 to $500 extra per year (I have heard 50% higher estimates but lets go with Mile High's numbers). If people are happy with it and willing to spend the extra $ I won't lose any sleep but I'll keep the extra money myself (and double it in Vegas!!!).

500 or more per year over the life of the tub say 5000 bucks. And you still have to use chlorine. Hmmmmmm seems like a no brainer. Add chlorine or add chlorine and 5000 dollars to your water. To each his own.

... yup, and when you look at it over a decade like you're saying rather than just a year it really stands out!

[chem geek]

If you are going to use Aqua Finesse, then please make sure you use some kind of sanitizer as well, such as chlorine.  This thread is from a user who developed hot tub lung after using Aqua Finesse without using chlorine.  Also, for more heavily used spas, you need to use a sufficient amount of oxidizer if you don't have an ozonator.  Roughly speaking, every person-hour of soaking in a hot (104ºF) tub without an ozonator requires around 3-1/2 teaspoons of Dichlor or 5 fluid ounces of 6% bleach or 7 teaspoons of non-chlorine shock (43% MPS) to oxidize bather waste.  All the talk about Aqua Finesse reducing this oxidizer demand is just bunk.  You add urea, ammonia, creatinine, amino acids and other nitrogenous organics from your sweat and urine and Aqua Finesse doesn't do anything to these chemicals.  Any extra oxidizder/sanitizer demand from biofilms will be well above and beyond this bather load amount, but in a properly sanitized spa (after initial Spa System Flush or equivalent treatment for new spas) there are not significant biofilms anyway.  In general, those people using Aqua Finesse most successfully have an ozonator and use at least some chlorine.

As for the lowest cost, I don't think anything (that is sanitary) beats the Dichlor-then-bleach method since bleach is so inexpensive.  The water will last roughly twice as long between water changes compared to Dichlor-only (because the CYA level doesn't build up with Dichlor-then-bleach).

As for having a powerful pH buffer and keeping Calcium Hardness (CH) low to prevent scaling, one could use a phosphate buffer.  In the Dichlor-then-bleach method, 50 ppm Borates are used as the pH buffer so that a 120-150 ppm CH can be used to prevent foaming.  One key to having the pH not rise so quickly is to keep the Total Alkalinity (TA) low.

[Water Boy]

The Aqua Finesse kits do come with Chlorine as part of the maintenance kit. It even says in the directions to use chlorine.

[Spatech_tuo]

The Aqua Finesse kits do come with Chlorine as part of the maintenance kit. It even says in the directions to use chlorine.

Yes but a few posts earlier MileHigh is saying you will use less sanitizer and that just seems like asking for trouble.

[Water Boy]

The Aqua Finesse kits do come with Chlorine as part of the maintenance kit. It even says in the directions to use chlorine.

Yes but a few posts earlier MileHigh is saying you will use less sanitizer and that just seems like asking for trouble.

I can see your point, but someone posted that a lady got hot tub lung or something from not using any chlorine with the Aqua Finesse treatment, and I just wanted to make sure everyone knew that you are still required to use Chlorine with the system per their directions. Yes, you do use less, but still required to use chlorine.