General > Beating a dead horse
Horse power
Chas:
--- Quote ---Extra HP guarantees nothing but extra energy costs until the wet test shows its worth it.
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That is it! That is the perfect summation of the point we have been trying to make.
Thanks.
8-)
Josh:
--- Quote ---Extra HP guarantees nothing but extra energy costs until the wet test shows its worth it.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---
That is it! That is the perfect summation of the point we have been trying to make.
Thanks.
8-)
--- End quote ---
I'm curious. Is there anyone here arguing that point?
I know I'm not. Never was.
I think the original discussion arose because I said I wet tested one tub that had more horsepower than another (and that I thought I could really feel a difference). I liked the difference so much I bought the tub. Clearly in that case...the extra HP was worth it.
When I said that, a few people started saying "Horsepower doesn't mean anything!" and trying to point out how maybe the less powerful tubs are somehow "designed better". Shortly afterwards, this topic started.
I'm not sure anyone in this topic has offered any insight into the original discussion. People have made plenty of great points about horsepower itself....but I'm still not sure anything's been said that offers any more insight into the original horsepower question that kicked off the topic.
Does extra Horsepower ever make a difference?
Is it just something that's mostly used as a selling point?
Are the numbers all lies?
IMHO....Horsepower can be used as a selling point...but during my testing, it seemed that sometimes a little extra provides a measurable difference in performance.
Spatech_tuo:
--- Quote ---
I'm curious. Is there anyone here arguing that point?
I know I'm not. Never was.
--- End quote ---
We're making valid points in a thread started to discuss this very topic. I'm not sure why that is an issue for you.
--- Quote ---
I'm not sure anyone in this topic has offered any insight into the original discussion. People have made plenty of great points about horsepower itself....but I'm still not sure anything's been said that offers any more insight into the original horsepower question that kicked off the topic.
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Funny, I thought there has been some very helpful posts for people who may be shopping and want to know why some seem to have twice the horsepower and why some dealers may focus in on HP while others will give a sales presentation and not even bring it up in discussion.
--- Quote ---Does extra Horsepower ever make a difference?
Is it just something that's mostly used as a selling point?
Are the numbers all lies?
IMHO....Horsepower can be used as a selling point...but during my testing, it seemed that sometimes a little extra provides a measurable difference in performance.
--- End quote ---
Horsepower is certainly used in sales presentations as a selling point. Not everyone uses it with their fingers crossed behind their backs though.
The fact that a company would design a spa with two pumps and yet have an option to add a third pump is a telling fact. The design with two pumps meets peoples needs most of the time but they know they can appeal to those who want more by allowing a third pump. Is it needed? Probably not too often but it makes some extra sales. Its mostly about selling spas to the Tim Allen "grrrr, more HP please" crowd but its a "whatever makes the sale" approach and it makes the seller and the buyer happy so ...
Heck, there is a nut who sells spas over the internet who puts a couple huge pumps in his spas that require a 70A service. It basically removes back hair and makes the power meter spin wildly but he finds some who think that's what they want.
A friend of mine just bought a new truck last wekened. I don't remember the specs but he pretty much needs a ladder to get into it (he's about 5'5", 150 lbs) and it sounds like a power plant when he fires it up (diesel of course). A few of us joked that its his "compensator" toy. He drives it to work every day and it sits in the parking lot while he's in the office. Its all about "want" for him, not "need". If he bought a spa I guarantee he'd pay close attention to HP specs and the BHP guys would have him thinking "wow, 5 HP pumps, grrr" and he'd be wanting to add 2 extra pumps if he could.
Gomboman:
--- Quote ---I tested a Hot Springs tub that had 2 4.8hp (peak) motors and felt incredibly weak compared to a Jacuzzi with two 4.2hp motors. In this case, even though the Jacuzzi didn't have as much power, it felt so much better than it's competition....so clearly, specs aren't everything. Of course...the Jacuzzi also cost quite a bit more....so maybe it's not fair to compare it against the cheaper Hot Springs model.
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Josh, the HS models typically sell for more than similarly equipped Jacuzzi spas--at least in my area they do. I'm surprised that in your area the HS spas were "cheaper" than Jacuzzi.
Josh:
--- Quote ---
We're making valid points in a thread started to discuss this very topic. I'm not sure why that is an issue for you.
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I don't have any issues with any of the valid points in this thread. ;)
Speaking of which...you just made quite a few that had a lot to do with the topic, which I will reply to now:
--- Quote ---Funny, I thought there has been some very helpful posts for people who may be shopping and want to know why some seem to have twice the horsepower and why some dealers may focus in on HP while others will give a sales presentation and not even bring it up in discussion.
--- End quote ---
I think the dealers who sell tubs with less horsepower didn't use it as a selling point because...well, they have less horsepower. Most spa places I went to weren't exactly keen on pointing out the shortcomings of their product (they usually spent time talking about the shortcomings of everyone else's product). The places that had more jets pointed out they had more jets. The places that had more than 2 pumps talked about how they offered 3 pumps. Everyone talked about their cool features....and when I'd ask about a cool feature I saw somewhere else....they'd generally tell me why it sucked.
As I've mentioned before, that was my least favorite thing about shopping for a hot tub.
--- Quote ---The fact that a company would design a spa with two pumps and yet have an option to add a third pump is a telling fact. The design with two pumps meets peoples needs most of the time but they know they can appeal to those who want more by allowing a third pump. Is it needed? Probably not too often but it makes some extra sales. Its mostly about selling spas to the Tim Allen "grrrr, more HP please" crowd but its a "whatever makes the sale" approach and it makes the seller and the buyer happy so ...
Heck, there is a nut who sells spas over the internet who puts a couple huge pumps in his spas that require a 70A service. It basically removes back hair and makes the power meter spin wildly but he finds some who think that's what they want.
--- End quote ---
I think the companies that cater to people like that are smart.
Once you've found a tub you like, why NOT get a few options to make it even better? For me, that third pump made a difference. I sat in one with two pumps and one with three in the same shop, and noticed a measurable difference in comfort...which was number one on my "Spa criteria list". That's why I got it.
The places that install optional stuff like that are just catering to those folks that might want some choices beyond what's standard. This is industry wide, not just limited to places with extra pumps. Think about all the companies that offer TVs in the tubs, stereos with wireless iPod hookups, a couple of extra LED lights, waterfalls and fountains. All this stuff is useless for the most part....but there are people out there that think it's cool. I admit that I'm one of them.
--- Quote --- Its all about "want" for him, not "need". If he bought a spa I guarantee he'd pay close attention to HP specs and the BHP guys would have him thinking "wow, 5 HP pumps, grrr" and he'd be wanting to add 2 extra pumps if he could.
--- End quote ---
Do you think there's something wrong with that sort of mentality?
As a follow up: Do most of us really "need" a hot tub? Unless your physician is recommending it for physical therapy and it's covered by your health plan, these are generally luxury items we buy for relaxation, comfort and recreation. When my old tub broke, I didn't need a new one, (could have had it fixed) but I shopped around, picked the tub I thought was the most comfortable, and made a deal. When I bought it....THAT'S when I added all the extra stuff. I didn't buy it because of the extra stuff. Every dealer had some sort of optional thing I could add on to trick out my spa.
This is all supposed to be fun....right? :)
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