General > Beating a dead horse
Horse power
AstaLaVista:
--- Quote ---Someone needs to lighten up. First of all Josh clearly stated his opinions are based on his experience. He is a consumer and as such has nothing to gain by trying to sway other members here. Secondly, being a salesperson in NO WAY qualifies you as an expert. Period. As a matter of fact most consumers would describe the vast majority of salespeople as, in your words, "trying to pass off a handful of crap as chocolate." Nothing new there.
--- End quote ---
Don't know if you were talking to me.... but I clearly stated they were professionals...and experienced... I did not once call anyone an expert. ;)
What I was trying to point out to Josh is that it is all about perception.
Spiderman:
--- Quote ---
I tested a Hot Springs tub that had 2 4.8hp (peak) motors and felt incredibly weak compared to a Jacuzzi with two 4.2hp motors. In this case, even though the Jacuzzi didn't have as much power, it felt so much better than it's competition....so clearly, specs aren't everything. Of course...the Jacuzzi also cost quite a bit more....so maybe it's not fair to compare it against the cheaper Hot Springs model.
--- End quote ---
Which Hot Spring models did you test??
Chas:
--- Quote ---could one also make many of the same "horse power means nothing"
arguments about cars?......because many cars are designed different
and some may be "designed better"?
--- End quote ---
I have given this a lot of thought - thanks for bringing it up.
Many years ago the Gummit mandated new ways of advertising/selling cars. They required that auto makers begin using the numbers which could be measured at the wheels on the exact model of car. No more engineering tricks which basically said, "if this engine was run in a lab under perfect conditions it should make XX HP." It had to be real-world, and it had to apply to the exact model with the exact options you were looking at - in other words, the car, not just the engine. If you doubt that, go look at some brochures or read magazine reviews of new cars. They list the HP ratings with auto transmissions, manual transmission, deluxe models, sport models, and some may have still other ratings if you add a towing package or whatever.
It would be great if there was a number in the Tub industry which was as accurate at showing the actual functional power of a tub as it sits in your yard. The closest I can come is to offer this: put your hands in front of the jets in a running spa of the same make and model you are looking at.
Josh:
--- Quote ---
I don't really think you understood what you have read in this topic. You seem to take the bits and pieces that you want and leave the rest.
--- End quote ---
Well, yeah. I don't have an opinion on every single point someone has brought up in this topic, I've just been responding to the stuff I do have an opinion on.
--- Quote ---A. It is coincidence that you picked a tub that you like and claims to has more horsepower. And like they said... it is still just a sticker. Whether you have two or three pumps none of those motors are truly 5hp.
--- End quote ---
I don't believe that it's coincidence at all. I picked the spa I picked because it provided a vastly superiror experience to anything else I tested. Several of the tubs were close to one another, and had several good points each....but this one blew them all out of the water. What was so great about it? For one, it felt like it had more power. For two, the positioning and number of jets. After that was the layout and finally....the "accent" options I added to it.
Regarding the horsepower....if it's "Just a sticker"...then how there was such a big difference in how powerful the tub felt to me? If I had to guess, I'd say it was because there were more pumps pushing more water through more jets faster than the other models I tested. I could be wrong.
--- Quote ---B. Your model comes with 2.5 hp motors with 4.8hp break down torque. That does not make them 5hp motors- no matter how you look at it. If you like the tub great for you ... but it doesn't mean that horse power makes a difference. What the Professionals on this site are saying is factual... but you keep bringing it back to your tub. The only authority you have on this is what your sales person told you... They said they are 5 hp... You liked the way they felt.. So therefore in your mind it makes it true. For all you know your spa could actually have 3 1.5 hp motors.... and it is just piped efficiently... making it feel stronger... but the only way the salesmen can put it in terms for the monkey to by the banana is to say it is high horse power.
--- End quote ---
I'm not disagreeing with anything in the quote above, nor I am not claiming to be some kind of authority on horsepower. I'm not claiming I have some special facts (other than what's on the spec sheets) that scientifically prove that the hot tub I bought has more horsepower than another tub I tested. The only thing I've said in this thread is what certain tubs felt like to me.
Other people are the ones making all the statements about what horsepower does and doesn't mean.
--- Quote ---So yes josh... You are happy with your tub I get that... It has strong jets... but that does not take away from all the experience on this site saying that HP doesn't matter.
--- End quote ---
I'm not saying they're wrong. I'm just not saying that I believe they're right. I think the real answer lies in the middle somewhere. I believe bigger (or more) pumps can obviously effect the performance of a tub.....but I also believe that if it's designed well, something with less horsepower can still perform really well.
--- Quote ---What your point proves is that a sales person can add to their sales pitch by calling a 2.5 hp motor 5 hp (which I noticed on a HS brand you stated 4.8... never rounding that one up like your preferred brand) I could sell a handful or crap and call it chocolate… but its still just crap.
--- End quote ---
I didn't round either one up. I took the data from the Spec Sheet on Hotspring.com and the data from LASpas.com when I was posting my example. The LA Spas site says their pumps are 5HP max, with 2.5 continous. The Hot Springs one says 4.8 max with 2.5 continous. The Heet I bought has 3 pumps. The Vista I looked at had 2. If you check the websites...you'll find the same numbers I did. Perhaps they're all lies....(or perhaps just the LA Spas site is all lies). I have no idea, they're just the numbers I used when I was talking about how much power one tub said it had compared to another one. I wasn't rounding anything off to support an opinion.
Truth is, horsepower numbers didn't factor into my search at all. It was all about comfort for me. The numbers were just an afterthought and something we've discussed here.
--- Quote ---You have sat on this site and criticized anyone that showed any bias towards any tub... but I have seen quite a bit of that from you in terms of this HP issue. The difference is you don’t have the experience to substantiate it.
--- End quote ---
If people want to say horsepower means nothing and that the only reason that tub felt better to me is because it was "designed better"....I'm not sure that's factual, but I won't say it's impossible. Personally, I'd assume that it just had more pumps and that made more water move around. But what do I know? I'm no expert. :)
Either way, I'm not attempting to be biased or prove that the Heet was better than the Vista or something. Both tubs are good, one was just better for ME.
Repeat_Offender:
--- Quote ---Don't know if you were talking to me.... but I clearly stated they were professionals...and experienced... I did not once call anyone an expert. ;)
What I was trying to point out to Josh is that it is all about perception.
--- End quote ---
Experienced salespeople. Nothing necessarily whatsoever to do with expertise. Therefore their opinions may carry no more weight than the average consumer, and in a lot of cases less than an educated one.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version