General > Beating a dead horse
Horse power
Josh:
--- Quote ---could one also make many of the same "horse power means nothing"
arguments about cars?......because many cars are designed different
and some may be "designed better"?
--- End quote ---
I highly doubt it. Like hot tubs, comparing the two options is just not comparing apples to apples. It's all about what kind of car each particular person wants to drive.
I can totally understand why proponents of a brand of hot tub that happens to have less horsepower might try to make arguments against tubs with more power or more jets. It's the same reason dealers who sell tubs that lack "Feature X" tend to point out how awful "Feature X" is and try to explain why "Feature Y" is better.
These sorts of statements shouldn't carry any weight in anyone's buying decisions. They're far too common and their main purpose is to confuse the buyer and sway them towards one choice or another.
If you want to find out whether or not more horsepower matters to you, all you have to do is Wet Test and see what feels the best. For me, sticking my hand in the tub doesn't really do it. I needed to get in the tub....see how the jets felt. Until I did that, pretty much every hot tub was the same.
People can list all the "facts" they want to try to explain why horsepower doesn't matter...but in my tests, I discovered I liked the feeling of a tub that happened to have more jets and more horsepower than some others that I tested. So I bought it. I guess to me....it mattered after all.
clover:
Back in the sixties, every macho male shopping for a car was very much interested in HP. Then, cars were $3,000 and you had 3 years to pay it off. Today, NOBODY even bothers to lift the hood, much less ask about HP, and we pay $30,000.
What is horsepower???????? It means something to sombody and that is what we have here, but is it "marketing" HP, "peak performance" HP, or "delivered force" HP.
Marketing HP is what Chas refers to in his example. It can be whatever you want to print on the label. There are NO horsepower police here to monitor the industry. 5HP pumps, expecially 3 of them, would make your electric meter spin like crazy. That does not go over well with the efficency minded. If you go to a motor shop and try to buy a 5 HP motor, put it next to your Hot Tub 5 HP, you will understand that they are not comparable. This HP is fantasy, but it makes an impact with consumers and it could be a material fact in the consumers decision.
"Peak HP" is the initial force at which the motor operates without a load or friction to reduce its' output. Volts x Amps = Watts and watts consumed determines horsepower.
Every motor label has a SF rating usually around 10% which is what is lost to load, friction and work performance, etc. This is deducted from the "Peak HP" to give us what is NORMALLY referred to as HP.
This battle has persisted for more than 15 years or longer and if you think the industry would want to do something about it, you would see flow meters on every spa leaving the factory.
Guess what, you would even know when to clean your filter because of restricted GPM read out on the meter, Imagine that.
Marketing HP has proven itself to be effective for manufacturers in a highly competative field, such as this, especially during shopping comparisons by shoppers. You would be absolutely amazed about what "shoppers" think about when looking at Hot Tubs. The first thing you will here from the male shopper is, "how much horsepower do your have, and that is always followed by "How much is this one?", and most often in the first 5 minutes in the store.
Some of us may consider it to be deceptive, but we alone can not chage an industry. I suppose the Hot Tub manufacturers could discuss it among themselves. One company could even reveal their "TRUE" horsepower, but do you think their sales will go up or down in the competative environment.
AstaLaVista:
--- Quote ---
I highly doubt it. Like hot tubs, comparing the two options is just not comparing apples to apples. It's all about what kind of car each particular person wants to drive.
I can totally understand why proponents of a brand of hot tub that happens to have less horsepower might try to make arguments against tubs with more power or more jets. It's the same reason dealers who sell tubs that lack "Feature X" tend to point out how awful "Feature X" is and try to explain why "Feature Y" is better.
These sorts of statements shouldn't carry any weight in anyone's buying decisions. They're far too common and their main purpose is to confuse the buyer and sway them towards one choice or another.
If you want to find out whether or not more horsepower matters to you, all you have to do is Wet Test and see what feels the best. For me, sticking my hand in the tub doesn't really do it. I needed to get in the tub....see how the jets felt. Until I did that, pretty much every hot tub was the same.
People can list all the "facts" they want to try to explain why horsepower doesn't matter...but in my tests, I discovered I liked the feeling of a tub that happened to have more jets and more horsepower than some others that I tested. So I bought it. I guess to me....it mattered after all.
--- End quote ---
I don't really think you understood what you have read in this topic. You seem to take the bits and pieces that you want and leave the rest.
A. It is coincidence that you picked a tub that you like and claims to has more horsepower. And like they said... it is still just a sticker. Whether you have two or three pumps none of those motors are truly 5hp.
B. Your model comes with 2.5 hp motors with 4.8hp break down torque. That does not make them 5hp motors- no matter how you look at it. If you like the tub great for you ... but it doesn't mean that horse power makes a difference. What the Professionals on this site are saying is factual... but you keep bringing it back to your tub. The only authority you have on this is what your sales person told you... They said they are 5 hp... You liked the way they felt.. So therefore in your mind it makes it true. For all you know your spa could actually have 3 1.5 hp motors.... and it is just piped efficiently... making it feel stronger... but the only way the salesmen can put it in terms for the monkey to by the banana is to say it is high horse power.
So yes josh... You are happy with your tub I get that... It has strong jets... but that does not take away from all the experience on this site saying that HP doesn't matter. What your point proves is that a sales person can add to their sales pitch by calling a 2.5 hp motor 5 hp (which I noticed on a HS brand you stated 4.8... never rounding that one up like your preferred brand) I could sell a handful or crap and call it chocolate… but its still just crap. You have sat on this site and criticized anyone that showed any bias towards any tub... but I have seen quite a bit of that from you in terms of this HP issue. The difference is you don’t have the experience to substantiate it.
Josh:
--- Quote ---Back in the sixties, every macho male shopping for a car was very much interested in HP. Then, cars were $3,000 and you had 3 years to pay it off. Today, NOBODY even bothers to lift the hood, much less ask about HP, and we pay $30,000.
--- End quote ---
That's sort of a silly statement.
There are dozens of models of car that are still all about horsepower and torque today. The Viper has risen from 350-600 horses over the years. Vettes have been trying to match it by climbing hundreds of horses as well. People also add thousands of dollars in parts to standard cars to turn them into racing machines that can hit 100mph faster than most cars go 0-60.
Now, I'll grant you that not a lot of people care how many horses their VW Jetta or Honda Civic has, but that's a totally different kind of car (and a different driving experience).
Hot tubs are the same way. There are standard models and models with all the bells and whistles. For many folks, a few seats and a few jets are all they need. For others, they want full surround sound speakers and a 42" Plasma TV that pops out of the side.
That wide spectrum of choices and differences is a GOOD thing....and I don't blame companies for creating stickers and spec-sheets that call out their particular bragging rights.
Repeat_Offender:
Someone needs to lighten up. First of all Josh clearly stated his opinions are based on his experience. He is a consumer and as such has nothing to gain by trying to sway other members here. Secondly, being a salesperson in NO WAY qualifies you as an expert. Period. As a matter of fact most consumers would describe the vast majority of salespeople as, in your words, "trying to pass off a handful of crap as chocolate." Nothing new there.
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