Re: ***** Spas

[drewstar]

I agree, there isn't too many consumers chiming in on these spas. That in of itself seems unselttleing to me. What do you like about this spa?


Are you flying to Colorodo specifically to wet test this tub?

[stuart]

Now I'm confused? You would spend extra money to fly up to Denver from Phoenix to potentially purchase a very high dollar spa from someone that badmouths the entire industry yet you don't like how the industry badmouths???

To my knowledge, every major brand is represented in Phoenix...Stick with a local dealer with local support that you can look in the eye on a day to day basis and form a customer service relationship!

I don't care whether the spas are everything he says they are or not...There is no way for him to take care of you like a local dealer!

[spaman--]

Wow! Send an E-Mail to this gentleman paul.comfort@intertek.com <paul.comfort@intertek.com>  and ask him if these spas are ETL listed.Further more make sure you are allowed to install a non UL or ETL listed in your area, as in Colorado and many states it is illegal to install a non UL listed or ETL listed spa, further more you may want to look at the company that builds the **** Spas (Phoenix Spas) as they offer the product before it is rebranded at a fraction of the cost. In reality you may want to actually check out the major brands as there is a reason they havent adopted the theiries of ****spas.

[Spatech_tuo]

The guy who sells those spas over the net has a reputation in the industry as a hot head that buys a Phoenix spa and rebrands it as his own. He's had customers start web sites to chronicle how he does not provide service when things go wrong (the check is already cashed at that point). I can show you how he's been sued by his bank for nonpayment so i certainly wouldn't trust him with my $$. He's changed his name at some point and never explained that one so hat's a red flag for me. His website is full of half-truths, exaggerations and flat out lies. He's been banned by most every spa forum he's ever been on for his belligerent behavior and for deceit by posting as a spa salesman of another company at the same time so he can have a contrived conversation to try to make himself appear superior (he has a messiah complex). The list goes on and on and on. The few people who do end up buying from him are the conspiracy theorists who believe he has the truth and the industry is trying to keep him down (THE MAN that is). The simple reality is he takes a so-so spa brand (Phoenix spas) and has them build a spa for him with his label and he then jacks up the price considerably (I'm guessing 20% more than a comparable Phoenix spa) yet you get no local service when things go wrong (I know, he says he’ll find someone in the yellow pages in your area, good luck on that one). I would avoid him like the plague that he is.  

[spaman--]

In Phoenix you have the best opportunity to shop all major brands right there on Bell road.Go to Paddock at Arrowhead and talk to Dawn, or go to Family time and talk only to Mark Sr. or got to Four seasons and talk only to Trevor,or Acrylic Spas and talk to Ramsey or Roger. Those are the people who know their product and have integrety in your area.The real pro on that road recently moved to Colorado,but one of these people will have the right tub for you.I would not buy any where else if I were in your shoes.

[Steve]

Bodyaches; Run in the opposite direction before your wallet aches!

There's countless information on the spa deceptionist for poor customer service. If you want a Phoenix spa, buy one. Don't pay the extra $3000 to have a relabled, unsafe, overpriced one with no ETL listing from this scam artist.

...and I'm holding back!

Steve

[Brewman]

Buy a Phoenix spa instead.  At least you'd be getting local dealer support, and probably save a few thousand to boot.  You can always punch your own holes in the cabinet and install a fan to void the ETL/UL listing yourself, instead of paying for a pre voided one.
Brewman

[Mendocino101]

Forgive me as I am skeptical if you are genuinely serous about buying the spa you are considering .....since there is no real cost savings to you and since you are buying from someone who will not be able , simply by logistics be able to provide any real service and since the spas are neither UL or ETL approved why would you consider it. As mentioned you are looking at a spa that is made by a manufacture that most would consider middle of the road at best and than shipped off where someone tinkers with it and voids all safety certs that it originally had ..... why not stick with a  company that actually builds and warranties their spas .....since the Haven name is what you are considering and it is actually a Phoenix spa...what happens if Haven goes out of business will Phoenix honor the warranty ....I do not think so ..... I have always wondered why the gentleman who is Haven spas with all of his self proclaimed superiority , if there were real validity to it a larger company would buy his innovations , hire him and make the best spa on the market but since that has not happened I wonder where is the substance to all of his talk ....Think Micro soft if someone does it better they buy them to gain the edge ....it would happened with spas as well if there was real substance to his claims.

[East_TX_Spa]

He is the Flim Flam Man, never forget that.

Terminator

[Forum Admin]

Forgive me as I am skeptical if you are genuinely serous about buying the spa you are considering .

Bodyaches,  From prior experience I am suspicious of anyone coming here asking about that spa.  It is me that has gone through and changed the title of this thread and removed mention of the name. We don't even want to accidently promote that man's product.

I did verify your in Pheonix, but there is a history of that guy posing as a consumer on other forums. He is banned from most every hot tub forum he doesn't run. Other times he sends people here to see what we have to say about him so he can prove his wacko theories about the entire industry being against him.  (Your message doesn't have many of the tell tales clues that this is the case, but  he might be getting smart) In the interest of not promoting him, I am removing mention of the name from all messages and the title.  Don't like the censorship?  There's the door But ifyou want to hang around one of the best hot tub forms, please do.   Talk about tubs, your mother's hysterectomy, or Diamond backs, but not HIM or his spas.

Oh, I see I was logged in as forum admin again as I was editing.  My main user name is wmccall if you want to yell at me in private.  I am a volunteer moderator here.

[wmccall]

Ok, I'm back as myself    I can't speak to the quality of those spas.  But having dealt with the owner  I can say if they were the best spas in the world and they were half the cost of any other spa, I still wouldn't buy one.  I wish I would have saved the email messages he sent me, though it would be illegal for me to post them.  I believe, in my non-professional opinion, he is an unbalanced loon.

[drewstar]

 Hopefully Bodyaches is not the "Flim flam" man in disguise, or one of his flying monkeys doing his bidding, and this is a legitimate post.  I would very much like to see an intellegent dicussion on these tubs from a consumer's viewpoint, esp from someone who is going up to wet test the tub, and talk to this man and report first hand what's what.

[fatman]

Forgive me as I am skeptical if you are genuinely serous about buying the spa you are considering .....since there is no real cost savings to you and since you are buying from someone who will not be able , simply by logistics be able to provide any real service and since the spas are neither UL or ETL approved why would you consider it. As mentioned you are looking at a spa that is made by a manufacture that most would consider middle of the road at best and than shipped off where someone tinkers with it and voids all safety certs that it originally had ..... why not stick with a  company that actually builds and warranties their spas .....since the Haven name is what you are considering and it is actually a Phoenix spa...what happens if Haven goes out of business will Phoenix honor the warranty ....I do not think so ..... I have always wondered why the gentleman who is Haven spas with all of his self proclaimed superiority , if there were real validity to it a larger company would buy his innovations , hire him and make the best spa on the market but since that has not happened I wonder where is the substance to all of his talk ....Think Micro soft if someone does it better they buy them to gain the edge ....it would happened with spas as well if there was real substance to his claims.

Mendo, You make a very good point here. Nicely worded. My wife and I were talking about the original post of this thread. The idea of flying out of state to wet test a hot tub sounds like a gigantic waste of time to both of us.  Even if you were to disregard all the negativity surrounding *****/JA, does he truly manufacturer such a superior product that anybody would spend the money to fly to CO to check it out?When it comes time for a warranty repair, do you think JA would be quick to jump on a plane to fix your hot tub?  

[wmccall]

Hopefully Bodyaches is not the "Flim flam" man in disguise, or one of his flying monkeys doing his bidding, and this is a legitimate post.  I would very much like to see an intellegent dicussion on these tubs from a consumer's viewpoint, esp from someone who is going up to wet test the tub, and talk to this man and report first hand what's what.

My sentiments exactly Drewstar.  That is the main reason the thread exists as it does now.  My only concern at this point is not accidently directing any extra business his way.

[drewstar]

My sentiments exactly Drewstar.  That is the main reason the thread exists as it does now.  My only concern at this point is not accidently directing any extra business his way.

if what people say about him is true, thenI have no doubt that if it is discussed in this fourm,  no business will be directed his way.

I am curious on what model tub you were looking at, the price,  any lititerture you received,  what claims were made about the tub, did you get a copy of the warrentey etc?  All that info would be fair game to disect.

And oh, do they throw in a free steroe or any cool rubber ducks?

Free rubber ducks are the hallmark of a good dealer.