Filtration in hot tubs

[Spatech_tuo]

Also, didn't realize how much hair I'm losing,  arghhh!

As a result,  my single filter takes quite a long time to get dirty and require a rinse and clean.  

Talk to Terminator, he's found a solution to that problem.

[drewstar]

Let me ask you all this:

Does you spa have a cloth like round thin filter pad that sits on top of your skimmer?  

Coleman has been doing this for some time now but I never hear about anybody else doing it.

It is a front line defense from any debris getting into the pipes.  Just take it off once a week and hose it off.  Amazing how much crap accumulates there.  

Also, didn't realize how much hair I'm losing,  arghhh!

As a result,  my single filter takes quite a long time to get dirty and require a rinse and clean.  

2 year old spa,  still on same original filter.

So you have two filters.

[TN__HOT_TUB]

Let me ask you all this:

Does you spa have a cloth like round thin filter pad that sits on top of your skimmer?  

Coleman has been doing this for some time now but I never hear about anybody else doing it.

It is a front line defense from any debris getting into the pipes.  Just take it off once a week and hose it off.  Amazing how much crap accumulates there.  

I think Jacuzzi spas have a screen netting to collect debris.

[windsurfdog]

More mis-information.  325 sq ft filtering 180-200gpm pumps.  Seems to me they have plenty of available sq ft of filtration to do what ever they want while still maintaining no bypass filtration.

Sorry, pkud, you missed my point entirely.  I was not asserting that HS tubs didn't have enough filtration for 2 therapy motors....certainly they do.  But, should HS decide to add a model with 3 therapy pumps, they could not do so without adding 2 more filters.....period.  Could they sell a 7 filter tub?  I doubt it.  Do they even care to produce a tub with more than 2 therapy pumps?  I doubt it.  But, once again, those of us who have tubs with 3 or more therapy pumps appreciate the adjustability and therapy provided.  IMO, HS tubs are limited with their 2 therapy pump system and adding another pump adds 2 more filters.  No misinformation here.

[windsurfdog]

I know this one.  I remember a conversation I had while having dinner w/ the Pres of Watkins many years ago.  We were discussing various spa models and he was asked why they didnt put a moto-massage on the Prodigy.  His response was to give seperation and reasons to upgrade.  He said that he didnt want people to buy the Prodigy, he wanted them to upgrade to the Sovereign.  therefore, the reason they do not put the same filter plumbing in the Tiger River, Caldera, etc.. is to be able to charge the premium price for this "premium feature".  In fact, years ago they printed up a sheet that could be handed out that listed the "Premium Features" that were on a Hot Spring that could not be found on any other spa.

So this means that the manufacturer of HS spas sees no-bypass filtration as an extra....something that is not really necessary for a sanitary tub but is a value added extra that somehow provides something more than other tubs....whatever that may be.  Smart marketing to have a feature that no one else has but, in reality, nothing but marketing.

[J._McD]

As I am sure you know, typically the 47 jets are not on all of the same time.  Since most of the time the diverter valves (pretty much an industry standard feature) are set to one side or the other, using your numbers, we now have 20 gpm.

You probably know on a Hot Spring, you do not power up just one seat.  Depending on the spa, you power up half or a quarter of the spa.

I am a dealer.  I am the one who "admitted" the numbers of our industry are not audited.  From my discussions with upper management (the mother ship), Watkins would be the first to agree to independent auditing of spas manufactured.

Cleaning the Tri X filters in the dishwasher is simply a feature.  If features are marketing, so be it.

So you do agree that you get great performance out of 1 seat, or ¼ of the spa, or ½ of the spa, but not 100% of the spa.  And, this may be great for some of the people 50% to 80% of the time, but if they get more than 2 people in the Hot Tub, somebody is going to be disappointed about the performance coming out of the jet.

I think it is a criteria for all of us to sell our product line, but to say one is BETTER than another is MISLEADING to some depending on what they are looking for.  

The most over used word and one that raises the hair on the back of my neck is the word "BEST".  It seems to be an over used claim that everybody seems to make.  Everybody has the "BEST" it seems, or at least that is what shoppers tell me.

HS is not the best for all, it is a good choice, but not always the best.  This seems to be an industry that we can count 140+ competitors making product with predominantly 10 to 15 being discussed on this forum by some very honest professionals.  Some just seem to be overwhelmingly filled with the pompous thought they are better than all others because after all, they have more dealer outlets that do more numbers in volumn, not necessarily because they are the best choice.

All products are SOLD.  HS sells more because there are more sellers selling them.  

[windsurfdog]

I think many of the competitors would gladly jump onto no bypass if it weren't for the fact that HS gave it a name and sells the daylights out of it. So now, it would look like they are agreeing with HS and saying that bypassing the filter doesn't make sense.

Or, looking at it from the other side, maybe the majority rules here....nobody else does it because they all see it as being fluff and marketing.

[salesdvl]

So this means that the manufacturer of HS spas sees no-bypass filtration as an extra....something that is not really necessary for a sanitary tub but is a value added extra that somehow provides something more than other tubs....whatever that may be.  Smart marketing to have a feature that no one else has but, in reality, nothing but marketing.

Nice summation.
Years ago they used to have this pitch for customers that couldnt decide between the Sovereign and the Tiger River Bengal.  I think they might have even had a worksheet printed.  They would have us dealers assign a value to a feature that was on HS and see if they would "add" it to the TR if they could.  For example, would you pay $300 extra to have the moto-massage added to the Bengal.  Would you pay $500 extra to have the no by-pass filtration added to the Bengal. etc.... Based on whether they would pay for those features was supposed to help determine whether they whould spend the extra $1000 for the Sovereign or get the Bengal.

[stuart]

I know this one.  I remember a conversation I had while having dinner w/ the Pres of Watkins many years ago.  We were discussing various spa models and he was asked why they didnt put a moto-massage on the Prodigy.  His response was to give seperation and reasons to upgrade.  He said that he didnt want people to buy the Prodigy, he wanted them to upgrade to the Sovereign.  therefore, the reason they do not put the same filter plumbing in the Tiger River, Caldera, etc.. is to be able to charge the premium price for this "premium feature".  In fact, years ago they printed up a sheet that could be handed out that listed the "Premium Features" that were on a Hot Spring that could not be found on any other spa.

Wow,
I had that same conversation with Steve years ago almost word for word!! Now I don't feel special anymore...

[drewstar]

Wow,
I had that same conversation with Steve years ago almost word for word!! Now I don't feel special anymore...

My dad went on vacation a few years ago in South America,  and bumped into this guy while on a bus.

Yup. Same exact conversation. word for word.  funny thing is, my dad doesn't care about hut tubs.  This guys just starts talking to him.  "Hi, my name is steve...you know many people ask me about the  Sovereign ...."

Talk about creepy.

[salesdvl]

Wow,
I had that same conversation with Steve years ago almost word for word!! Now I don't feel special anymore...

It was at dinner when I was graduating from their Top Gun sales training.  Nice guy.  

[hymbaw]

Every swimming pool has it. They, like HS figure that if you are going to be moving a lot of water then you might as well filter a lot of water.

HS big claim is that it's important to filter the water BEFORE it enters the pump, right? NO pools do this, so is that just hype on HS part or did you pick the wrong random anaolgy?

[hymbaw]

I hate to bring this up since it will probably go to the Dead Horse section anyway.

Only if the arguements favor HS. Otherwise the topic will get locked and buried under future posts per orders from the "mothership"

[shabba34]

Just to be clear, I personally never claim to have the "best" of anything.(Read previous posts)  It is however my job as well as it is every other spa proffessionals on this site, to clear up any mis-representations, answer any questions to the best of our knowledge, and do so in a proffessional mannor.  All this "he said he has this feature and we don't, that's not fair BS is over the top ridiculous".

Everybody markets their specialty items heavily.
Everybody markets themselves heavily.
Everybody knows everything.

As JcMD said "HS sells more because they have more people selling the product"

Saying a certain MFG doesn't want to sell more or have more dealers is a joke.  Every MFG wants to increase sales while still maintaining the integrity of the product.

By the way, I have "THE BEST" animals.  They're all "SUPER HIGH END"

[Vanguard]

All pools DO have 100% no-bypass.  They just place the filter after the pump.

As to why other mfgs don't do it - who knows what all the reasons are.  I do know that this industry has some of the biggest egos I've ever seen.

Used to be a philosophy in the car industry that I see here as well.  It was called the NIH philosophy.  Or, Not Invented Here.  If it was invented by a different manufacturer, others would not use it no matter how good it was.  

With big egos and NIH philosophy, I'm not surprised that other manufacturers don't use no-bypass.