Filtration in hot tubs

[Cola]

I hate to tell you Ronald, but you got suckered into the usual HS filtration speach.  Ok well that's a stretch but I have the Epic and I can tell you that the filtration is just as good.  My water stays crystal clear.  The lie about little or no chems is just that.  If you have other people over in the tub, you will want to make sure that the sanitizer levels are up a bit.  The silver cartridge and the frog cartridge are very slow killing minerals.  Ozone is a fast kill, but thats just for the small part of the water flowing through the tube, for the most part and it doesn't run when you are in the tub.  The marquis's filtration is excellent.  My tub can sit for five days easy without dichlor (no bromine) on two hours per day filtration and a mineral cartridge and the water will still look crystal clear.
The bottom line here is that both tubs a great tubs.  The 24 hour pumps are great but some say that they don't last.  I made my decision based on the following in this order
1) Quality and service - I started by narrowing down to the top mfg's based on info from this forum.  Not everything was available locally, but we did bet to try out seven quality brands (of about 15 locally available brands)
2) Fit - the Epic was by far the best that we wet tested.  Price was better than hot springs.  Both have excellent warranties and both look similar in quality.
3) Filtration and chemicals - This was initially my number one concern.  I am a bit sensitive to chlorine smell.  As I learned more about water sanitation,  I realized that no ona has a true chemical free system.  I too was concerned about sitting in a chemical soup.  Although I keep my dichlor readings way low for personal usage, I do bring it up when anyone else is over.
The bottom line is that your priorities are just that, yours.  You have chosen a great tub and I don't personally care what anybody else here owns, just make sure that you are getting the one that you truely like the best.
Good luck and happy tubbing
Steve

[shabba34]

I hate to tell you Ronald, but you got suckered into the usual HS filtration speach.  Ok well that's a stretch but I have the Epic and I can tell you that the filtration is just as good.  My water stays crystal clear.  The lie about little or no chems is just that.  If you have other people over in the tub, you will want to make sure that the sanitizer levels are up a bit.  The silver cartridge and the frog cartridge are very slow killing minerals.  Ozone is a fast kill, but thats just for the small part of the water flowing through the tube, for the most part and it doesn't run when you are in the tub.  The marquis's filtration is excellent.  My tub can sit for five days easy without dichlor (no bromine) on two hours per day filtration and a mineral cartridge and the water will still look crystal clear.
The bottom line here is that both tubs a great tubs.  The 24 hour pumps are great but some say that they don't last.  I made my decision based on the following in this order
1) Quality and service - I started by narrowing down to the top mfg's based on info from this forum.  Not everything was available locally, but we did bet to try out seven quality brands (of about 15 locally available brands)
2) Fit - the Epic was by far the best that we wet tested.  Price was better than hot springs.  Both have excellent warranties and both look similar in quality.
3) Filtration and chemicals - This was initially my number one concern.  I am a bit sensitive to chlorine smell.  As I learned more about water sanitation,  I realized that no ona has a true chemical free system.  I too was concerned about sitting in a chemical soup.  Although I keep my dichlor readings way low for personal usage, I do bring it up when anyone else is over.
The bottom line is that your priorities are just that, yours.  You have chosen a great tub and I don't personally care what anybody else here owns, just make sure that you are getting the one that you truely like the best.
Good luck and happy tubbing
Steve

10 people, 10 different opinions.             The Envoy was by far the best we wet tested between Marquis, Sundance etc...

I can leave my spa 23 days, 6 hours and 17 minutes with just ozone and silver ion cart and the water will be crystal clear.

He got suckered in to the HS filtration??  So anyone who explains the difference between brand X,Y,Z and how they operate are now suckering the customer!  Poor statement choice Cola.  

Ron, enjoy your Envoy.  And be careful stepping into that lounger.

[Mendocino101]

Both are nice spas, both will keep your water clean. and both have people who think one is better than the other. I think its the Marquis of course but I respect that the Envoy is also a nice spa and I am sure you will be happy with either.

[salesdvl]

If a little circ pump is moving 5 gallons a minute with 100% filtration, and a jet pump is moving 20 gallons a minute with only 25% filtration, which is filtering more water?

Come on guys, all the water coming out is simply diluting the main body of dirty water in the spa. They all work! If one was really that much better wouldn't everyone be doing it the same?

Amen

[salesdvl]

I remember a chemical seminar one time that taught that good water quality was like a 3 legged table.  Filtration, Circualtion, & Chemicals;  without one, the table will fall over.  The filter story is just that.  It's a story to talk about to the customer.  The reality is that they will all do perfectly OK as long as the other 2 "legs" are still there.
I have had Hot Spring display spas in the past turn nasty because the chemicals weren't maintained, at the same time as the brand with "by-pass" filtration stayed clear.

[Mendocino101]

So little water is actually pulled though the by- pass...just watch the top and see how much water is pulled into the filters, also with the Marquis they plumb the by-pass to the filters....but as it has been said both work.....and as saledvel mentioned keep your water sanitized, rinse your filters and most any spa will keep the water clean.....

[Cola]

Hey Pkud
Maybe you should learn how to read
I said "Maybe that's a stretch"
I personally don't give a crap what anyone here own's
Ronald quoted what his sales rep's line was.
I gave him some additional info.
I personally didn't like the HS tubs but who cares.
HS makes a great tub, so does Marquis.
HS has "no bypass filtration", Marquis filters it all too.
They have many differences but their is now way in hell that I would run either without any chems especially during moderate usage periods.
I don't think that Ronald is a sucker by any means.
He bought a great tub by a great mfg.
If he thinks that he will get away with ozone, silver ions and dishwasher friendly filters, then he will be sadly mistaken.  If he liked the marquis fit better but bought the HS for filter reasons, that's a sucker line in my book.
By the way, I went 5 months through the winter with two hours filtering & ozone per day and 2 X 5 ml of dichlor weekly.  Shocked every three weeks.  Never a chlorine smell when I got in.
Steve

[Chas]

One thing which can't really be disputed: any tub which has no bypass arrangement can filter in ten minutes what a tub with bypass can take up to two hours to do.

[salesdvl]

One thing which can't really be disputed: any tub which has no bypass arrangement can filter in ten minutes what a tub with bypass can take up to two hours to do.

and your point is........on top of your head.  

[anne]

Does Chas really have a pointy head? :-/

[Chas]

Chas does not.

[shabba34]

Hey Pkud
Maybe you should learn how to read
I said "Maybe that's a stretch"
I personally don't give a crap what anyone here own's
Ronald quoted what his sales rep's line was.
I gave him some additional info.
I personally didn't like the HS tubs but who cares.
HS makes a great tub, so does Marquis.
HS has "no bypass filtration", Marquis filters it all too.
They have many differences but their is now way in hell that I would run either without any chems especially during moderate usage periods.
I don't think that Ronald is a sucker by any means.
He bought a great tub by a great mfg.
If he thinks that he will get away with ozone, silver ions and dishwasher friendly filters, then he will be sadly mistaken.  If he liked the marquis fit better but bought the HS for filter reasons, that's a sucker line in my book.
By the way, I went 5 months through the winter with two hours filtering & ozone per day and 2 X 5 ml of dichor weekly.  Shocked every three weeks.  Never a chlorine smell when I got in.
Steve

I'm a strong subscriber of  So I can read just fine.  His(Rons) dealer described using minimal chems, not zero as you falsy described.  At no time in Rons original post did he reference getting by with just ozone and silver ions.  Who is the one who should learn how to read you MO MO!

Ron just joined this board looking for helpful input regarding his spa.  I understand having a bias towards the brand you own or sell, but there should be a sence of kuth(spell) in your approach, in which I think you had none.

[East_TX_Spa]

Water Filtration Made Simple by Terminator:

Is it better to filter every drop of water before it enters the pump, heater, plumbing, and re-enters the spa through the jets?   Yes   No   Maybe  (Circle One)

If you circle yes, you have a great deal of common sense and logic.

If you circle no, you sell a brand that does not filter all the water before it enters the pump, heater, and plumbing because your spa has by-pass valves which, of course, by-pass the filters.

If you circle maybe, refer to the very simple diagram in the second post of this topic.

See ya'll next week.  I'm off to visit the Pool and Spa Show!

Terminator

[salesdvl]

Water Filtration Made Simple by Terminator:

Is it better to filter every drop of water before it enters the pump, heater, plumbing, and re-enters the spa through the jets?   Yes   No   Maybe  (Circle One)

If you circle yes, you have a great deal of common sense and logic.

If you circle no, you sell a brand that does not filter all the water before it enters the pump, heater, and plumbing because your spa has by-pass valves which, of course, by-pass the filters.

If you circle maybe, refer to the very simple diagram in the second post of this topic.

See ya'll next week.  I'm off to visit the Pool and Spa Show!

Terminator

As it has been beaten to death.  It is not a better way, it is just a different way.

I have referred to the swimming pool industry before.  Pool filters are actually not even suction side, they are pressure side.  Hair, skin, all those things go through the skimmer basket and through the pump, do not get hung up on the impellar, and then get caught in the filter.  Clean water is then returned back to the pool.  As long as the filters runs and the chemicals are right, the water will be fine.  No big secret.  

100% no by-pass filtration is just 1 story from 1 spa company that thought of a way to market their filtering system.  Kudos to them.  But it is cetainly not the only way to do it.  Nor is it any more sanitary than any other way.

[J._McD]

We have ordered a Hot Springs Envoy ....The thing that seemed to do it for us was the 24 hour circulation pump, the five (325 sq.ft.) of filters that can go into the dishwasher, the silver cartridge that goes into one of the filters and the point of not putting in a large amount of chemicals. The Marquis was very nice (I loved the sound system which is too expensive in the Hot Springs unit), but its frog system and two filters without the 24 hour filtration did not seem to produce the same level of cleaning that we hope to see in the Hot Springs...........- Ron

The KEY word here is HOPE, you do realize that the circ pump only uses one of those filters and the others are for the "clean up cycles" provided by the other pumps.

You have made a good choice with the Envoy, and you would have made the same good choice with the Marquis, you were just swayed by the hopeful expectation that you have placed in what the "salesman said".  Either way, you could not go wrong, HS just had a more convincing salesperson.  Now if they could only offer price competitive sound systems.  What is it that makes it soo expensive?  I just can not see the cost being so high.