Filtration in hot tubs

[shabba34]

Oh.  I guess using a little bit of common sense would then dictate there is probably a little more hair, dead skin, toenails, dirt, and buttcheese in the spa when there are actually people USING the spa.

That's when I really like to have my water clean.  Before and after is nice, too.

Terminator

Ummm.  Buttcheese.

[TN__HOT_TUB]

Nothing like some good butt"cheese" to go with some good butt"crack"ers.  

Ummm.  Buttcheese.

[Steve]

I got through most of this thread but gave up.

Is this any different than a FF/Thermal pane debate in ANY way? Does one FF tub not call it FF because they may agree that HS has the best concept? Is that why no one else uses no bypass? Come on you guys. We all know better than what has been written for the most part!

Give me any tub in the world and I could create a cesspool or crystal clear water in any of them within 48 hours. Teach your customer proper watercare based on usage and it's basically simple to maintain regardless as long as it has the basic, industry standard filtration.

As stated many times, most of us have proprietary features that we market to the consumer. That's what it is...MARKETING and regardless of how defensive we all are about the product we sell or own,  deep down, we all know this.

We have a system that I feel is wonderful with Hydropool and has a definite marketing appeal to it. No different than Beachcomber's Protec design with the pump outside, HS no by-pass or Artcic's Perimeter heatlock. These aren't in place because it's the BEST way to do it...It's in place because nobody else does it and it sets them apart! Again, I'm typing things that most everyone here already knows regardless of what we type.

It comes down to how honest we want to be with ourselves and each other. If anyone truly believes theirs is far superior to anyone else’s system with regards to filtration, then I suggest that you have been misguided and chose to embrace it without applying any logic.  Sell the crap out of what you believe in, but keep it real when dealing with other professionals.

Steve
Loosing brownie points 1 at a time!

[Bonibelle]

Help me understand ....  My Marquis tub performs two- two hour filter cycles/24 hours. My understanding is that they are no bypass filter cycles with ozone. doesn't really matter since the filtered water gets dumped back into the rest of the tub only achieving a dilution effect..bypass or not.  Additionally, aproximately 30 minutes after using the tub, it will automatically go into a no bypass filter cycle to remove all the goobers that have accumulated during the soak. This really makes excellent sense to me since, as you suggest Term, the greatest source of contamination is the soakers. so I feel that my water is clean when I go in and soon after I get out. I don't really see an advantage to filtering during soaking as you can't remove  the contamination without removing the source. Kind of like bailing the boat before you plug up the hole! Am I right or have I misunderstood this whole bypass stuff?  I have solved the toenail problem, keep your pH at about 4....

[East_TX_Spa]

Bonibelle, I love you to death and I would not take time out of my busy schedule to explain this to anyone else but you.

Other spas (including your fine Marquis) filter the debris before you get in and after you get out.  What they do not do is filter the debris while you are in the spa.  The debris has an uninterrupted shot straight into your pump, heater, and plumbing and then blows out your jets onto your back and legs.  That is, the debris that doesn't end up residing in your spa's internals.

That's it, plain and simple and with love.

Terminator

[Bonibelle]

OK, now I get it...and I appreciate your explaination but I guess I don't think that is such a big issue. If it was in my fish pond with all the cruddies, I would worry about protecting my pump. I would think spa pumps could handle toenails, skin and hair.  Which brings me to my final question....if all this wonderful crud is on those filters, including butt cheese -what ever that is (and I love you too, but please don't explain) why would you put that in your dishwasher? :-/

[hymbaw]

 Which brings me to my final question....if all this wonderful crud is on those filters, including butt cheese -what ever that is (and I love you too, but please don't explain) why would you put that in your dishwasher? :-/

LMAO

A very good question Bonibelle! Who knows what you might find stuck to a fork.

[East_TX_Spa]

Some people have buttcheese on their plates as it is part of their diet.  The French, for instance, and certain tribes of pygmies.  That's what dishwashers are for (and for cleaning HotSpring Tri-X Filters).

Terminator

[DPS]

You are incorrect Terminator.  In Marquis Spas pump 1 filters with no bypass when the high speed jets are on.  So when she (or anyone else) is using her spa either 120gpm (120v models) or 160gpm (240v models) is being filtered.  In Marquis' largest spa the turnover through the filters is every 3 minutes with jets on high speed.

[East_TX_Spa]

[size=18]What I've never understood (and maybe someone can explain it to me) is why all of these companies that "filter 100% of the water" put by-pass valves in their spas.  Don't by-pass valves do exactly that....by-pass the filters?[/size]

I'm anxious to hear the answers.

Terminator

I'm not saying you're wrong, I just want to know what is the point of having by-pass valves in your spa if they are serving no purpose?  That's all.

In the 6 years I've been selling spas, no one has ever been able to tell me.  If someone would be so kind as to provide a diagram, maybe that would help.

Terminator

[Cola]

Here is a layout of the Marquis filter system from their web site.  http://www.marquisspas.com/documents/2006/Constant_Clean.pdf
It shows the main filtration pump.  Regarding filter types, if a pleated filter works for car engine that will not withstand contamination, it's probably good for the tub.  The "3D" HS Tri-X filter is something like a polyester (foam like) type dust filter.  The actual face surface area  is under 10 square feet.  The fact that particles can be held on the inside of the filter as the water passes through gives for an increase in surface area, from a 3D standpoint.  Large particles will stay on the surface and smaller particles will enter cells - still easily washed out - I hope.  There is no doubt that HS has a great filter system but it does have its limits - just as everyone else's does.  
Regarding wear and tear on the main pump.  I work on machinery with pump systems on a daily basis.  Pumps that run 24/6 to 24/7.  These pumps are no better than the ones in the HS or Marquis tubs.  They are pumping contaminated pungent coolants, corrosive oils, etc. and they are single speed - high only.  Rarely a leak or failure.  As for the control equipment, the relay that pulls in for the low speed is rated for 12.5 times more than the pumps low speed current.  Failure rates here would be extremely low - probably a ten year average relay life from my experience.  With this in mind, and yes , filtration was a concern for me, I chose the best fit for my family and myself.
Steve

[East_TX_Spa]

 In Marquis Spas pump 1 filters with no bypass when the high speed jets are on.

What's Pump #2 doing when Pump #1 is running high speed with "no-bypass"? (This is where it always gets interesting and the mystery unfolds....)

Terminator

[Chas]

Ooh! Ooh! I know I know I know!

[DPS]

On Marquis Spas with 2 pumps, pump 2 does not circulate water through the filters.  The water is being circulated through the filters on pump 1 at a high rate, sending every drop of water in the spa through the filters every 3 minutes with the jets on high speed.  So, in your typical 15 minute soak, the entire volume of the spa has been through the filters 5 times.  Marquis doesn't have "by pass valves".  Whether pump 1 is on high speed for jets or on low speed for heating, filtration cycle, or clean up cycle, ALL of the water goes through the filters.

[Steve]

I'm just curious to see whos forehead starts bleeding first from banging it against the wall?