Bleed Screw Broke off in Watkins Wavemaster 7000

[Hybrid Spa]

Hey guys,

I have a Tiger River Sumatran spa.. it is a 2002 and has the Watkins Wavemaster 7000 Version 3 pump. I went to drain the tub this morning and as soon as I turned power off a bunch of water started leaking internally. Once I got the front cover off I saw that the bleed screw on the wet end of the Wavemaster 7000 had broken off. It is a plastic fitting and goes to a 1/2" hose. I was cut the tube and replaced it, but what can I do about the half broken off bleed screw inside the wet end of the pump?

It is a very tight area and I can't seem to get the broken piece out. I think I may either have to replace the wet end of the pump (I've found it online), but I'd rather just get the shredded plastic screw out and replace that (found that too.. for $2!).

Any ideas? I figure I may have to remove the pump to get a better angle at, but there is rigid PVC piping (input and output).. is there a write up on how to remove the pump.. or is it as easy as detatch the top PVC, the side PVC, unbolt and remove? Seems like its in there pretty good with the rigid PVC.

[TwinCitiesHotSpring]

thread off both unions (inlet and outlet) unbolt the pump and remove it....go to menards/home depot/etc. and buy a set of "ez outs" (basically reverse thread drill bits) and you can attempt to remove it that way, and not to state the obvious but be careful because you could ruin the plastic threads and then will be forced to buy a new wet end

[Hybrid Spa]

TwinCities,

Thank you so much for your reply. I have a set of EZ outs as I do classic car restorations. Only problem with this is that it is a hose fitting, therefore it has no broken off "bolt". It is essentially hollow with only threads. I have some snap ring pliers I was going to try to "grab" the fitting with and twist out, but can't get the tool in the relatively cramped space.

Regardless, thank you for your advice on how to remove the pump. One thing that I thought may be difficult is that both inlet and outlet are pretty rigid PVC and I figured it may be difficult to lift the pvc off the wet end.

I tried by hand to undo one of them, but it wouldn't budge. I have a set of rubber wrenches I will use and report back. Is there any thread sealant that is used when I replace the pump or is this accomplished with an o-ring?

[TwinCitiesHotSpring]

oh ok so basically you broke off the "nipple"...and yes your on the right track, in this case i would attempt to "notch" the remaining plastic left in the hole and use a small needle nose to try and thread out the old plastic...as far as the unions they have been sitting that way tighten for years so you will need a large channel lock to undo them (a rubber wrench may work, but the channel lock is a better option) no sealant needed when re-tightening them as they are a O-Ring seal...good luck

[Tman122]

oh ok so basically you broke off the "nipple"...and yes your on the right track, in this case i would attempt to "notch" the remaining plastic left in the hole and use a small needle nose to try and thread out the old plastic...as far as the unions they have been sitting that way tighten for years so you will need a large channel lock to undo them (a rubber wrench may work, but the channel lock is a better option) no sealant needed when re-tightening them as they are a O-Ring seal...good luck

I would use a little migic lube on the O-ring

[Hybrid Spa]

OK guys.. thanks for the help. I was able to get the broken piece out of the threads. After much frustration, I decided to tap a hole just a bit smaller than the original fitting to use a fitting I had pieced together from the hardware store. When I went to extract the tap it actually pulled out the broken piece leaving the intact original threads. This of course worked out much better as the hardware store fitting had 3 adapters to get what I needed.

Just placed the order for the $2.04 original part. I also replaced all the 1/2" and 1" vinyl tubing throughout as the almost 10 year old hoses were brittle. Looks pretty nice! This, however, turned out to be more of a job than I had originally thought... struggling to get those hoses on the fittings in the tight quarters was pretty difficult!

I finished everything up, just have to install the new part and I can get back to having a hot tub again! Thanks for the help guys.

[Chas]

It may be too late to help, but I have a couple of tips -

I use a pocket knife to get these out with the pump in the spa. Yes, I hate to say it, but I have done quite a few. I keep the blade sharp, fold it out half way, shove it into the fitting and work it back and forth to make a groove. Once I feel I have a good groove working (sounds like I'm reviewing a band here) I begin to turn the fitting out. I hold the handle of the knife at a 90 to the blade and take my time. Once it turns a bit, I start over making a new groove, and keeping at it until it is loose enough to take out the rest of the way by hand. If you do mess up the threads, it's not much of a problem because the fitting is o-ring sealed - and as such you don't need any thread tape or other sealer. You also DON'T NEED TO TIGHTEN LIKE AN APE, which is why so many of them failed.

Also - I use a heat gun on ALL vinyl tubing. Wow, what a difference it makes: the tubing will just slide on and off the barbed fittings, and seal up like new. If you don't have a heat gun, soak the tubing in a pot of boiling water for a few minutes. And save the broth, it makes great soup.

OK - maybe that last line isn't true - it's been a long day.

[Hybrid Spa]

Hey Chas! Thanks for the tips.. not a bad idea with the knife to extract out the broken piece! Also, I WISH that I knew about the hot water trick to get those hoses on easier. That was by far the most difficult part... by a LONG shot.

So my $2.04 part came today.. there is no O ring.. so I used some teflon tape around the threads and it went in no problem. I finished up the hose connections and started to fill the tub with water. Eventually I noticed a slow leak coming from the large pipe on the top... after about 20 minutes tightening, loosening and re tightening that top connection I saw the rubber o ring laying on the floor of the compartment. 

It took a WHILE to get that o ring into the groove, but eventually it went in there and no leaks from the top. Everything else is great when the tub is off... but I do have a VERY slow leak coming from the back of the "wet end" of the pump. This is where the motor goes in. It only leaks when the tub is on.. and it's barely worth mentioning. Is this normal? There is this wafer type gasket on the motor output that seems like it needs to either be up against the wet end or the motor. Any idea where this gasket is supposed to be seated? I think this might be the source of the leak.. is a little dripping at this spot normal?

[Chas]

No visible leakage is acceptable at that shaft seal. It will get into the bearing of the motor and cost big $.

The ring is a "slinger" which is supposed to sling water away from the bearing, and it simply 'floats' on the shaft.

These shaft seals are water-lubricated, and some water coming out is normal, but it is so small an amount of water as to not really be visible. If you can actually see water dripping or being flung by the slinger, it is time to replace the seal.

 

[rmplum]

I'm dealing with the same thing right now.  First my check valve was leaking.  When I pulled everything apart to replace that, the nipple broke off where it goes into the wet end (I was being very gentle - extremely surprised that it broke, but must have been brittle after all of this time).



here is the T-fitting where the other end attaches:



I was about to order a new wet end ($90) and that fitting ($2 or $3) but after reading this I may try to extract that broken fitting.  Ain't gonna be easy.  Either way I'll have to pull the wet end. 

Should I replace all the tubing (upstream of the circulation pump) while I'm in there?  Looks like 1/2" and 3/4" ID?

Ryan

[Chas]

If the pump is good, I sure wouldn't replace it. It's not tough to get the broken fitting out. If you can't get it with the pump in place, try just removing the bolts which hold it down and turning it a bit - sometimes that's all it takes to get a 'bite' on the remaining piece and get it out.

As to replacing the tubing - it's your call, of course, but be aware that if you do replace it all, in a year (or less) it will look and feel just like what you have in place. Nothing wrong with that, really. New tubing goes on easy, but old tubing does the same if you just get it warm.

And be sure to stay with the spring-type clamps. Automotive (screw-type) clamps do not work in this application.

 

[rmplum]

ok, so I'm knee deep in this - there is absolute no room in my bengal to get my head in there so what I can see what I am doing.

So I took off the 5? bolts that seem to hold the wet end together (the big unions came off easily) but I can't seem to wiggle that thing off.  The hose that is coming directly in to the wet end (from the left as I look at it) fits very tight against it and it's stiff.  I can separate the case of the wet end slightly, but there is no place for it to go it seems like.  I think once (if) I can get the wet end apart and removed, I can pull that broken part out.  I have an e-z- out that fits it, but I just hate to work "blind" and that's essentially how it is with everything still in there.

Any tips?

[rmplum]

I bought a bunch of new tubing (it was cheap), but will probably just replace the 1/2" ID section on that bleed line.  All of the bigger tubing (that goes into the "T") seems to be glued or bonded into that T-fitting.

Brought a heat gun home and it made removing and installing the tubing very easy.  Now if I could just get that broken nipple or wet end off.

[Chas]

I would never remove half the pump and leave the other half in the tub. You can't get it back together right. For one thing, it's real tough to clean the groove for the o-ring, and then getting the (new) o-ring to stay in place is tough. PLUS - I NEVER crack a pump of that type unless I'm going to replace it. They just don't always seal properly once they have been disassembled, and it is such a drag to fill the tub and then find out you are about to do the whole job over again. Of course, you are not charging yourself a hundred bucks an hour for labor ...

Remove the two screws holding the motor down to the equipment compartment floor, and try just turning the thing a bit. Undue the inlet/outlet unions for more play. By this time you should have the IQ2020 out of your way - Power off, open the front, find two screws low in the box and then slide it to the right and it falls right into your hands. Sometimes taking the ground wires off the left side of the box helps move it out of the way further.

This is really easy to do the second time...

 

[rmplum]

Yeah, I finally got it.

I pulled the two screws on the circ pump, slid that out of the way, then the two on the jet pump, moved it just enough to get the pump cover off.

When trying to get the broken fitting out (it had some hardened pipe dope or something on it) I cracked the cover slightly at the threads.  Eventually drilled the old broken fitting out (once I drilled through middle I was finally able to budge it enough to unthread it).  That thing was really stuck in there.  Not sure I ever would have removed it "in" the tub.  I set and epoxied the pump cover back together (it was just a small crack).

So now I am sitting there with my "fixed" pump cover, and the new fitting.  I said "what the heck" and epoxied (and threaded) the new fitting right into the pump cover, coating the threads as I screwed it back in.  I knew that if I ever have to be in there again I'm just going to replace the whole wet end, so I might as well make it permanent and as strong a junction as possible until then.  Let it cure (it actually looked pretty good), and put everything back together.  Filled up the tub last night and am waiting for the painfully slow heat-up process (mine runs on 110).  Checked it last last night and all was leak free, even turned the jets on a few times to agitate things.

If I had to do it again it would go MUCH faster.  From Chas' description getting the two pump halves together is a sticking point, though mine seemed to be ok.  The o-ring stayed seated in the big half.  I assume if this isn't set well I'd know it pretty quickly?