By-pass Filtration

[Hot Tub Guru]

Speaking of home shows.  I had a customer walk into my booth and say I heard by-pass filtration is the only way to go.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but there wasen't a Hot Springs dealer at our show.  So who talked about by-pass filtration.  It was Catalina and Dynasty.  Both of them said "We have no by-pass filtration."  So I looked like the fool to this customer telling her to contact the manufacture.  She said it was a manufactures rep that told her this.  Am I wrong?  Does Catalina/Dynasty both have no-bypass filtration?

Michael

[East_TX_Spa]

 Does Catalina/Dynasty both have no-bypass filtration?

Michael

Since they both have multiple by-pass valves in their spas, I find it highly unlikely.  Maybe they are footwell filters or safety features or self-cleaning floors.

Terminator

[Spatech_tuo]

Speaking of home shows.  I had a customer walk into my booth and say I heard by-pass filtration is the only way to go.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but there wasen't a Hot Springs dealer at our show.  So who talked about by-pass filtration.  It was Catalina and Dynasty.  Both of them said "We have no by-pass filtration."  So I looked like the fool to this customer telling her to contact the manufacture.  She said it was a manufactures rep that told her this.  Am I wrong?  Does Catalina/Dynasty both have no-bypass filtration?

Michael

I always wonder on things like this whether it is ignorance or just flat out deception. My guess would be that the customer probably heard about no-bypass from a Hot Springs dealer somewhere and asked that sales rep if their spas had it and he/she either said yes because he thought it was the answer the customer was looking for or he had no idea what this meant and said yes because it seemed like the best answer. Which is worse?

[Steve]

I agree spatech (Gawd I hate saying that   ) and I'm guessing it's more to do with ignorance than anything.

Even with a self cleaning floor Term, there's still bypass at the filter on high speed.

Here's a tech question for you guys... Do you know of any spa where the intakes in the footwell allow this water to be filtered prior to exiting the jets? The way I understand it is that almost all are plumbed into the base of the filter but this doesn't allow "filtration". Is that a reasonable assumption?

Steve

[hottubdan]

I have worked dozens of these shows.  Some of the "road dogs" who work these shows for various manufacturers (not really for dealers) will say and do anything for the sale.  The unscrupulous ones are only thinking of their commissions.  My observation is they do their homework and intentionally deceive.

I have had some work for me that I would never have back.

There are also professional independent salespeople who work homeshows.

I feel a home show is typically a great place for a deal and for ideas, often not a great place to buy a spa.

Unless...












it's from me.

[Chas]

There are many spa makers out there who plumb in a spring check valve which closes when the small circ pump is the only thing running. The valve will do the same when the big pump in on low speed, if there is no small circ pump. It will then kick open and allow bypass when the pumps are on high speed.

This is still bypass filtration - but I have seen the reps from these factories look me in the eye and tell me that their spa has "no bypass filtration."

Also, there are a few makers who plumb the bottom suction fittings into the pump and run a pressure-side filter. BUT these folks usually equip that filter with a pressure-relief valve which is in fact a bypass system. The bypass usually opens when the jets are on high - or when the filter starts to get loaded up with gunk.

[hymbaw]

If you look around the sides of the footwell and see intakes.........the spa bypasses the filter at some point. Hot Spring is the only spa that I've seen without 'em.

Another way to tell that a Hot Spring doesn't bypass the filters is the poor jet pressure Right, Term!

[SerjicalStrike]

Sundance does not bypass the filtration system on the 880 series.  Filtration pump is totally separate from the jets system and there are no bypass valves.

[Chas]

But that's the whole point. It's fine to have no bypass on the small circ pump - works great. But you need massive filtration from time to time, and HS does this by very simply pulling ALL of the water that the pumps move through a filter.

A no-bypass system on a set of good-sized pumps can do in ten minutes what a tytpical system needs a couple of hours to do.

[SerjicalStrike]

I would think turning the spa water over around 100 times per day without the main pumps running would be considered massive filtration.  You only need to turn the jets on when you want to use them and they are not affected by how dirty the filter gets because they do not pull through the filter.

[East_TX_Spa]

Another way to tell that a Hot Spring doesn't bypass the filters is the poor jet pressure Right, Term!

Only when the filters are dirty...but...just pop them in the dishwasher!

ATWTTB!

Terminator

[hymbaw]

Chas a Sundance 880 series circ pump pulls 35 gallons/min. That's over 50000 gallons a day. I would consider that "massive filtration" You would have to run your HS for hours to put that much water through the filters.

That being said HS is a fine product with better filtration than all but one of their competitors

[Bill_Stevenson]

When I read stuff like this I am sooo glad that I am not in the spa business.  I would start getting sarcastic really quickly.  Some of the sales tactics used by spa companies sound like jokes about door to door vacuum cheaner salesmen.  Like demonstrating that a certain brand of vacuum cleaner can pick up a bowling ball.  Yeper, if I had a bunch of bowling balls just showing up all over my living room rug all the time, I sure could use a vacuum cleaner like that.  No mention of the fact that such a machine might not pick up dirt so well of course.

My hat is off to you all for your ability to field some of this nonsense and still maintain your sense of humor.

I can't resist telling a vacuum cleaner joke.  The eager vacuum cleaner salesman has an appointment (these are scarce) and is not to be denied his opportunity.  Eagerly he starts his pitch, and the lady tries several times to break in, but the guy is in full stride as he pours a huge load of nasty, black filth all over her pristine white carpet.  "Don't worry," he enthuses, "I will eat the dirt myself ," if the vacuum cleaner does not suck it all right up.  At that the lady gets up and starts to leave the room.  The salesmas says, "where are you going?" and she replies matter of factly, "to get you a spoon, I have tried to explain several times that the power has been out all afternoon"

Bill

[hottubdan]

Sundance does not bypass the filtration system on the 880 series. ÊFiltration pump is totally separate from the jets system and there are no bypass valves.

I believe that means that none of the water is being filtered as it runs from returns to the jet pumps and back into the spa through the jets.  Am I wrong?

[J._McD]

This is just one big circle that goes round and round in the heat of passion.

How do you make a spa with FIVE filters intended to clean the water better than others, call it 100% No Bypass Filtration and then you come up with a solution that recommends a way to clean them all, you tell them you can wash them in the dishwasher, yuk.

The trouble is those that sell these, do believe it, and they are the same people that I saw walking out of the 10 day long home shows with their spas running on full tilt, but we never knew why, (filtration).

I can not count the number of times that I have been invited out in the early 90's to help (HS) spa owners keep their water clean like their neighbors (my customer using ozone) and their water was looking like pea soup, not enough filtration.

Well this is 10 years later and Stuart is right in his rants,

7. Over half of what HotSpring sells now as innovative features they crusaded against 10 years ago.

The best way to say it is that "you take your weakness and you make it a STRONG point.  "By-pass" is a term from the '80's and now you take the buzz word and you call it "No By-Pass" filtration, meaning 100% of the water that get sucked in is filtered.

Do the math and count the gallons.  Now hymbaw makes the point that SD turns over 50,000 gallons a day with their single circ pump and that is true.  So what is the outcome, they both filter the water clean.  Is one better than the other NO.  Do they both clean the water, YES.  Do their spa owners enjoy their tubbing experience, YES.

I can remember the HS guys walking out one night as we would all stay late, as if we were writting up deals eh, yeah that's the story, and they would say this is there last Home Show they are doing.

Stuart is right, shows are tiring especially when you sell a good quality product and the wise guy your talking to is a wheeler dealer talking cash that he can't produce but he wants you to match the best, cheapest deal he found out there but he wants your "top of the line".  That is what burned them out back then and not too much has changed.

Let's admit it, they all filter good and they do their job.  You could buy any of the brands that are bantered about on this board and they will all work good and deliver enjoyment to whomever buys it, but selling it to them is the real trick.  You have got to be better than all others, that means you are the BEST DEAL, BETTER THAN ALL OTHERS and that is where you have to stretch the imagination to the believable realm to the gullible public, anxious to do better than others in the quest for the BEST DEAL.

I take nothing from HS, it is a great Hot Tub and so are 20 or 30 others that do the same thing, deliver fun and enjoyment to those that use them.

D-1, Artesian, Sundance, Coleman, Marquis, Master, Cal, Jacuzzi, LA, Caldera, Artic, and ALL others have one thing in common with Hot Springs, they all make Hot Water and the all have happy owners, and they all deliver happines, fun, enjoyment and they bring relationships closer together.

I don't care how you clean your filter, I care how I clean mine.

I don't care if you have 100% no by pass filtration, my water is clean.

I don't care if you are TP or FF, I pay my energy bills because they are mine, now you pay yours.

I don't care too much about any of you, but I do care a whole lot about the 3 new deliveries that we had today, and I am dedicated to see that they are happy and enjoy their experience for years to come.

I truely wish you all the best, but we are all different and not the same, again that is what is good about this forum.  It is controversial, it is honest and we believe it to be, it is refreshing, enlightning, educational, and some times even a waste of time.  

I don't know where some of you get the time to be here so much, get a life, or get a job.  Chances are you work for someone that pays you and you don't own your own business and are just waiting for the next customer to walk in, the phone to ring, or time to go home and soak in the tub.