Are you people worth $10?

[Mendocino101]

It is a shame this happens because as you mention Bill, You saw some things you liked on the spas. My question for you is if you were in the market for a new spa , now knowing that the company promotes these types of events does it influence your decision to buy from them or would you rule them out because of the misleading advertising.

[windsurfdog]

It is a shame this happens because as you mention Bill, You saw some things you liked on the spas. My question for you is if you were in the market for a new spa , now knowing that the company promotes these types of events does it influence your decision to buy from them or would you rule them out because of the misleading advertising.

Please pardon me for replying to this question directed to Bill.
If one were to rule out MS based upon these shows and then rule out HS, Sundance, Marquis, Jacuzzi, etc. because of their participation in the "misleading" poolandspa.com "Be$t of Cla$$" ratings, that would definitely narrow down the field....certainly one way to filter the market.  Then again, some great tubs would be bypassed.  As I said in the other thread, I easily see parallels between the two.....

[Mendocino101]

Please pardon me for replying to this question directed to Bill.
If one were to rule out MS based upon these shows and then rule out HS, Sundance, Marquis, Jacuzzi, etc. because of their participation in the "misleading" poolandspa.com "Be$t of Cla$$" ratings, that would definitely narrow down the field....certainly one way to filter the market.  Then again, some great tubs would be bypassed.  As I said in the other thread, I easily see parallels between the two.....

For you to see a parallel you have a most unique sense of vision .....Perhaps only you and Miss Cleo can relate these types  and shows that are supported by really one company..... in the past you questioned those who spoke about these shows and if they ever really existed... now when that is no longer a viable way to speak about them... you stretch to make something related that is simply not.....No one else puts these on and as to the other type of advertising it is something I am not a fan of myself but it something that exists in most every industry .....JD POWER while being more credible is just a extension of this.... but this type of advertising and these shows have no common parallel .....

to add....what you are speaking about is things like the Good housing seal of approval ...and the like.... if you want to discus the merits of these fine but again they are nothing like a traveling show....

[cappykat]

Bonibelle...you gotta have her over.  I'd love to hear her reaction and how she rates the Epic.

[Steve]

I just found out what the cost is to have a "Best of Class" rating.... OUCH!

Steve

[wmccall]

It is a shame this happens because as you mention Bill, You saw some things you liked on the spas. My question for you is if you were in the market for a new spa , now knowing that the company promotes these types of events does it influence your decision to buy from them or would you rule them out because of the misleading advertising.

Back in the 80s I worked for High tech company as a Field Service Rep.   Frequently I had to go in where marketing people over promised what our equipment would do.  I also had cases where customers damaged equipment and tried to pass it off as a warranty call. One case I referred them to my boss, and told them , what ever his decision was I could live with it. Instead he called the marketing manager who told him there would be no charge and I would be fired.  So I've always considered Corporate Marketing people to be sleazy until proven otherwise.  Its the only stereotype I allow myself to follow.

Knowing I have to friends happy with Master and our local dealer I might still shop, wet test, and maybe buy there, but I'm sure the subject would come up as it will the next time I need chemicals.

[J._McD]

Whether we like it or not, advertising and marketing is what it is all about.  You can not sell something unless you have someone to sell it too.  To do that you have to "Lure" them into your presentation.  If you do it with stars that you purchase to imply it is worthy of their attention, or if you mislead them in advertising to bring them in, it is all about getting their attention.

Like it or not, ethical or unethical, advertising and marketing is what it is all about.  Mini-blinds have been 70% off for over 30 years now, and Art Van Furniture has been having their "best sale ever" for the past 52 consecutive week ends.

Stars that you buy are intentionally misleading for some that are listed, but yet acceptable for others because they are know to be better quality goods, but they are both doing the same thing, buying stars.

To claim "16 of the top brand spas" will be at the show has been referred to as everything from misleading to fraudulent, and I believe we can all agree on this.  But, the advertisers objective is to "bring people in".  Once they have come into the show, the naive and unknowing may actually end up buying and the advertiser accomplishes his objective and hits a home run, regardless of what we think.

Others may cry foul, and call it fraud and maybe it is, but it won't stop, until consumers recognize they are being lied to.  In the meantime, it must be OK because they continue to do it for a reason, SALES.

Obviously, Stars, Shows & Advertising all seem to working.

[windsurfdog]

For you to see a parallel you have a most unique sense of vision .....Perhaps only you and Miss Cleo can relate these types  and shows that are supported by really one company..... you stretch to make something related that is simply not...

Please see J._McD's excellent post above.  It's a shame you couldn't read it before going off on another one of your failed-anger-management tirades.  But I didn't expect you to react any other way.

BTW, once again for the record, I do not like Masterspas'
approach to these shows just as I don't like Hot Springs, Sundance, Jacuzzi and others buying ratings....both, though effective, aren't entirely on the up-and-up.  In trying to see them as dissimilar, Mendo, YOU have made the mistake.

Hats off to you, J._McD.....well said.

[Mendocino101]

Please see J._McD's excellent post above.  It's a shame you couldn't read it before going off on another one of your failed-anger-management tirades.  But I didn't expect you to react any other way.

BTW, once again for the record, I do not like Masterspas'
approach to these shows just as I don't like Hot Springs, Sundance, Jacuzzi and others buying ratings....both, though effective, aren't entirely on the up-and-up.  In trying to see them as dissimilar, Mendo, YOU have made the mistake.

Hats off to you, J._McD.....well said.

Since it written after posted I guess I should have contacted either you or Miss Cleo first. As to his point I guess he and I agree and also disagree....I do not see them in the same in light in any way shape or form ...One is advertising that is open to everyone .....We never mentioned it in our store as it is so highly questionable but when a competitor does at least we can point out yes so do we have the stars. But to some how go and promote that you are going to have 16 of the top brands at a show is very very different ....You so many times in the past basically questioned the integrity of those who posted about these shows and talk about being from Mississippi and for someone to show you before you would accept them as true and now that it is widely confirmed you link it with advertising that for the most part every manufacture participates in .....Yet you never can say hey maybe it is wrong to promote these shows in the way they are  even if they do make a good product, which was never spoke about .....and least we forget about the famous "rebates" that has been so closely associated with them. As I have have said before I am happy that you like your spa ...I just wonder why you seem to be so intent on being the comapny apologist.

[windsurfdog]

Since it written after posted I guess I should have contacted either you or Miss Cleo first. As to his point I guess he and I agree and also disagree....I do not see them in the same in light in any way shape or form ...One is advertising that is open to everyone .....

I'm assuming you mean that the MS ads are open to everyone where the poolsandspas.com website is not open to everyone?  I had no problem getting to the poolsandspas.com site yet I have never seen nor heard anything about an MS tent sale in my area or even in the southeast so from my perspective, I could argue just the opposite.....but I won't (see comments below).

We never mentioned it in our store as it is so highly questionable but when a competitor does at least we can point out yes so do we have the stars.

So do you tell them how much your manufacturer pays to get those stars?  Do you come clean that those stars are paid for and that no evaluation takes place at all?  Betcha don't.  Now isn't that misleading and fraudulant?

But to some how go and promote that you are going to have 16 of the top brands at a show is very very different ....You so many times in the past basically questioned the integrity of those who posted about these shows and talk about being from Mississippi and for someone to show you before you would accept them as true and now that it is widely confirmed you link it with advertising that for the most part every manufacture participates in .....

Yes, now that it has been at least 1.5 years since I questioned their existence (BTW, Missouri is the "Show Me" state), I trust that you, Bill and others have witnessed them....yes, I believe they exist and yes, though I've never seen one ad about them, I trust you and Bill and others to judge that they are advertising in a way that I do not espouse.  The only reason I see parallels between their version of misleading and poolsandspas.com version of misleading is because THEY ARE BOTH MISLEADING!  DUH!  And I guess, like children do, its ok to pay for the stars " 'cause everyone else does it.'  And like your Mother, I say, "Would you jump off a cliff because everyone else does it?"

Yet you never can say hey maybe it is wrong to promote these shows in the way they are  even if they do make a good product, which was never spoke about ..

Please take the time to read my opinions about them in this and other threads......PLEASE!

...and least we forget about the famous "rebates" that has been so closely associated with them.

By all means lets dredge that one up again.....it seems to make you happy.

As I have have said before I am happy that you like your spa ...I just wonder why you seem to be so intent on being the comapny apologist.

It's not for MS.......its because of you.

[Mendocino101]

two things one....well three thanks you are right it being Missouri ...... ......but pool and spa search is open to all....selling at Masters shows are not ......and as to if we tell them about the ratings......YES.....we do.....we do not get into a big deal about it but simply point out that in the end its of very little value , if they want to know more we can get into but really it is something rarely mentioned by anyone and certainly not by us in promoting a spas worth .....We make a joke about consumer DIGEST with people when asked about it....As again how much does it really mean......I could go on about things but what is the point.....I just have never been able to understand why you feel the need to defend them so much.....My gripe with them always has been with these shows as they are nothing as promoted....

[Bonibelle]

You guys are all giving support to the importance of this forum and everyone who contributes on here. Cappy (from many posts above), I am first trying to get a nice "booster seat" for my friend because I do really feel bad that she can not enjoy her spa.  Otherwise I would feel like I was bragging. I know, since she is about as tall as I am, my Epic would be a much nicer tub for her.
Because she bought under pressure at one of these shows, and they made her believe it was a do it now or you will never see this great price again. She didn't have the benefit of this forum, or visiting other dealers because she believed, just like I did (and was told on the phone) that this was a representation of MANY different dealers. In fact, I guess it was... Many different MS dealers. This is a classic example of why this kind of marketing is frowned upon. I think she has a nice enought tub, it is big and has plenty of jets, but it doesn't fit her, so I need to get her a booster seat so I don't feel bad, then I can show her my Epic  

[Spatech_tuo]

what you are speaking about is things like the Good housing seal of approval ....

That's a pretty fair comparison. I've avoided jumping in  (this thread is going nowhere) but I gotta say that while the P&S ratings may be misleading they pale in comparison to the Bait and Switch operation going on at those MS shows [glb]IMO.[/glb]

[windsurfdog]

...(this thread is going nowhere)...

This thread and all the threads that evolve around this subject for the last 1.5 years or so have always gone nowhere.  Those who object to it--spa dealers who feel it is shady at best, unlawful at worse, or gullible customers who let themselves be drawn into buying a multi-thousand dollar appliance at the whim of "take it today or lose it forever"--should do something about it besides lip service.  If nothing can be done or if one is not willing to pursue it, it's nothing but b i t c h i n g and moaning.  FOR THE RECORD ONE LAST TIME:  As a consumer, I do not like the practice.  I do not see any laws that are broken yet it does have a "fishy smell" to it.  I do not have pity on anyone who falls into its web nor do I have any animosity toward anyone who purchases a spa at one of these events and are happy campers.  As J. McD said, it's marketing pure and simple.  Like it or not, it's here to stay unless the b i t c h i n g  stops and the action starts.

...but I gotta say that while the P&S ratings may be misleading they pale in comparison to the Bait and Switch operation going on at those MS shows [glb]IMO.[/glb]

"...pale in comparison?..."  Well, if one feels "little white lies" are acceptable then maybe so.  To me, a lie is a lie is a lie.[glb]IMO.[/glb]

[windsurfdog]

And thank you to Bill for putting this thread in the appropriate forum.