Full foam or part foam

[amok03]

I am getting a lot of conflicting advice from dealers re the insulation on a hot tub some are saying full foam is best and others are saying don't even think about full foam and always go for part foam please help as this is becoming a nightmare !!!!!! 

[ejf The Spa Guy]

ther are several ways for insulating a hot tub, Full foam, Thermal Chamber, Fiberglass, Roxul,,  There has been many debates on the issue, some guys love each style their own, each having pros and cons.. I happen to sell  these different styles,, They all do a great job,   Each salesman you talk to will to you one is better than the other,,, for instance the full foam guy will tell you that the thermal chamber always leak,,, hes partially right but not 100 percent, you have the thermal chamber guy tell you that the full foam spa is a nightmare to repair if it has a leak,, again not a 100 percent true,,,one way to look at it, most spa salesman have only sold one style or the other , on the thermal chamber make sure you get a spa with the main pipes on the insulated bed not supported under the shell lip with glue joints. and also get it with a 24/7 circ pump standard, a thermal chamber works much better with keeping the chamber at a constant temp , than the main pump running every 12 hours on a filter cycle.as for the operation of the spas, they are all gonna be efficient in operation. BUt buy from a company that has been around a long time has had great referals, check to see if they have reviews on their google places page....But you can get a feel from talking to different salesman and which ones are up front and the ones who give you b.s....hope this helps... I would not buy a spa based on the insulation value,...But i would look at the D1, Sundance, Jacuzzi, Hot Springs, Marquis,  as the tops you might also check Clearwater, and Arctic.

[amok03]

Thanks for your response. I am just trying to obtain as much info as possible at the minute but am finding it a bit of a minefield!! So much conflicting info off salesmen too. Thanks again.

[Chas]

These questions usually end up in the "Beating a Dead Horse" section of the forum - because everyone who sells will come along and tout the type of insulation they sell as 'best.'

They all have benefits. I have seen leaks happen in full foam, though far fewer than other types of insulation schemes.

The pipes are well-supported in full foam, and the tubs can be very quiet.

But using good plumbing techniques and supporting the equipment and plumbing in other ways is also possible.

So listen to the tub you are looking at - if it is quiet enough to please you, and if it is fully insulated in SOME manner, use other criteria for making your choice.

[amok03]

Thanks for the responses they are much appreciated 

[Tman122]

Thanks for the responses they are much appreciated 

If you throw out the what's best retoric you will find that most important is comfort. On your back side and your wallet!!

[JulieMor]

As someone who owns a spa with full foam insulation and who also had to hunt down some leaks, yes, it's a bear to find them.  I'd say 85% of the time I spent fixing the leaks was spent on removing the foam and finding the leaks.  BUT... I didn't have a leak problem until a heater went out in the winter and hoses froze.  Now that I've found and repaired the leaks I have to replace all the foam I excavated.  I bought a foaming kit for just under $400.  The parts needed to fix the leak cost about $50.

I look at it like owning an expensive car, when they work, they are awesome.  But when they break, they are expensive to fix.

[spa goddess]

To foam or not to foam.....that is the question.

We sell all the different types of insulation. You can debate the topic until you are blue in the face. 

Basically it comes to full foam costs more to buy but at some point you will have a break even point where you will save some on heating costs. The savings will vary by climate.  You will have a quieter tub because it is also noise insulation.  The foam also holds the lines in place and supports them as they hold the weight of all that moving water through them.  So, although it can leak it's not as likely as you might think.   Most of your top rated brands are full foamed. 

It will also depend on the type of foam as to how hard it will be to repair plumbing leaks.  Some use foam that needs to be chipped out, others use a foam that you can pull out by the handful or a combination of the two. 

On the other hand some of the cheapest tubs are full foamed because they use the hard foam as structure instead of framing the spa. 

The foam/no foam debate has great points on both sides but really is only a component of which tub to buy.  All the components such as dealership, framing, pumps, jets, sizing, and price all need to go into your equation. 

We sell Coast which was always a full foamed tub.  Thier largest competitor in the Canadian market uses a thermopane insulation.  At shows, etc. it was shouts of "foam"  "no foam" across the aisles.  So Coast did a study where they ran identical tubs except for the insulation on separate meters for a year and found that, although the full foam was less expensive to operate, it was not as much of a difference as they had hoped.  At that point Coast made all the types on insulation available on thier tubs so you can choose what made sense to you. 

For myself, I choose full foam and have had the tub for 7 years with no leaking or foam problems and it's very economical to operate.

[JulieMor]

Prior to the leaks, our Hot Springs ran like a top. It was quiet, solid and cost about $10/mo to run in the winter (that was when we bought it in '93).

Yes, it was a pain to hunt down the leaks and I could easily fill the excavated space with some other insulation but we wanted to keep the spa as close to manufacturer standards as possible.   

[ejf The Spa Guy]

Just like spa goddess said there can be a debate till we all die.... i also sell the different styles, Full Foam, Thermal Chamber, Fiberglass, and Roxul, Most only sell one or the other, you will usually have the full foam guy slam the thermal chamber, and likewise the thermal chamber slam the full foam. With experience with all these that i have makes it easier to educate the consumer on the different styles and which would be the best suited for that particular customer,

[JulieMor]

Getting the spa back together required refoaming it.  We bought a kit from Foam It Green (about $400) and sprayed the bottom section.  Being a novice, it was a bit messy but very easy to use.  The foam however, is not as dense as the manufacturer's foam but Foam It did say their product is waterproof.  It's a closed cell foam, in case that makes any difference to anyone.

We had an ant infestation problem caused by the leaks attracting the ants and the ants taking up residence in the foam.  I'm sure they found it easier to excavate foam than wood.  To counter than we covered the bottom with an aluminum screen before setting it back down.  We also wrapped the screen around the base perimeter and up under the skirt (we're replacing the skirt too).  We're considering wrapping the spa under the where the skirt will go, so long as the screen doesn't interfere with installing the new skirt.  So ants could be a problem with full foam if you develop leaks.  We never noticed any ants before the leaks started.

Just some things to add to the foam debate.