Hot Spot Relay or Beachcomber 350 "Hybrid"

[Scoobmaster]

My quest for our 1st hot tub continues - I thank ALL of you on this forum for your time in answering my many questions!

I thought I had narrowed down my search to the Hot Spot SX (formerly known as the Solana SX) but after my wife and I had some time to talk it over after our wet test, it is a little too small for us (you were right, John-Duck!).  So now I have turned my attention (and my $5000-$6000 budget) to the Hot Spot Relay.  It looks like a lot of tub for the $ and I like the look of the lounge with the calf massage jets.  I am hope the dealer I tested the SX at is understanding when I call back to ask about trying the Relay.

In the meantime, we checked out another dealer (number 3) that sells Beachcomber tubs.  My wife and I narrowed their offerings down to the 350 model.  I *think* the Beachcomber 350 and the HotSpot Relay are an "apples to apples" comparison as they are close in price as to what I am quoted so far ($5700 for relay and $6199 for the 350 "Hybrid").  I use "Hybrid" in quotes as I don't think the way Beachcomber uses it in their marketing is correct in the engineering sense of the word (where is your alternate power source?).  Anyway - the option moves the pumps and electronics under the steps and adds a wee bit more insulation as I am sure many of you are aware.  I think this also adds a "hush pump" (24hr circ pump) which is an additional option on the HotSpot Relay.

We like both dealers (as opposed to unfortunately my wife not liking the local Nordic dealer) and like both of these tubs.  I am looking for any advice/personal experience/opinions on these two tubs.   The Relay is a "sexy" looking tub, and has two jet pumps compared to the Beachcombers single.  However, the Beachcomber's policy of allowing us to swap out and customize what jets we want is intriguing.  I am a little put off by their marketing though (their brochure reads like cult indoctrination propaganda into the "Beachcomber and Eco-Green lifestyle" - like you should run out and by a Prius after buying their tub).  The dealer and tub itself seem fine though.

Am I overlooking anything? 

[Spatech_tuo]

It sounds like you're pretty analytical and on the right track. A few have commented on the way BC has jumped on the "hybrid" bandwagon, I'm not knocking the idea but it’s a feature they’ve sold for years but previously it was just sold as 4-wall insulation until a couple years ago when they really changed the way they sold it with all the “hybrid” verbiage and went a bit overboard. I agree, use solar or some additional energy source and then calling it “hybrid” makes sense. Right now its just about using the buzz word itself.

Overall both brands are respected and with you thinking each dealer is good it should come down to the deal you can get and of course how each one looks/fits/feels.

[wmccall]

It sounds like you're pretty analytical and on the right track.

I agree, I hope he comes back and lets us know which way they go and how it works out.

[Scoobmaster]

Hey - I can't help it.

I am a Computer geek & IT Professional with an Engineering degree in Industrial Technology.  I analyze EVERYTHING.

Anyway, Thanks for your input.

Spatech: in a reply in one of my other threads, didn't you say you used to be in upstate NY?  I am just curious where in the state.

[Spatech_tuo]

Hey - I can't help it.

I am a Computer geek & IT Professional with an Engineering degree in Industrial Technology.  I analyze EVERYTHING.

Anyway, Thanks for your input.

Spatech: in a reply in one of my other threads, didn't you say you used to be in upstate NY?  I am just curious where in the state.

I came from the center of NY known as New Hartford (small city just outside the garden part of NY known as Utica). From my memory it was the first 23 years of my life with nothing but mild, non-snowy winters and cool, non-humid summers without a bug in sight! 

[BIG SWEDE]

I've just reviewed this with a friend and the Beachcomber claim Title 20 rating. He did check and Beachcomber does still have the lowest energy consumption avaerage based on the 25 manufacturers listed in the state.
He bought basd on thier guaranty but energy is a concern for me.

[Scoobmaster]

I came from the center of NY known as New Hartford (small city just outside the garden part of NY known as Utica). From my memory it was the first 23 years of my life with nothing but mild, non-snowy winters and cool, non-humid summers without a bug in sight! 

Ah yes, up near Utica.  I have actually been through there a few times.  I am down in the "Southern Tier" (still considered to be upstate) in Endicott (near Binghamton).  Were you in spa sales when you were up here?  Did you ever work for one of the dealers that set up displays at the NY State Fair?


Big Swede:  Thanks for the input on Energy consumption.  I do like the fact that they have all four walls completely foamed on the Beachcombers.  The concern I have is with the pumps "outside" the frame and under the steps wouldn't they (and the exposed pipes running to them) be a source of net heat loss?  IIRC on the 350 and 360 models I just looked at the pumps and controls just sat on the floor with the steps placed over them.  In my setup, the tub would be on a raised deck so there would be very cold air below the pumps in the winter with nothing but a few deck planks under them. 

Anyway, I would still like to try both the Relay and 350 filled to feel the differences.  Based on what I have read here and on both manufacturer's websites, quality and warranty on both of these tubs are pretty much equal.  We now have to decide which one fits us best and also consider which dealer is willing to offer us the most value for our dollar.

[Chas]

Hybrid. Hmm. Interesting use of the word. As you say, where is the alternative power source? I have had a wood-fired heater on a wooden hot tub - no jets, the heat forced the water to thermo-syphon in and out of the tub and through the coil above the firebox. I later added a pump and some jets - and a natural-gas fired heater. I had a Hybrid!! That was close to thirty years ago!! Wow - I'm a pioneer! I have also worked on tubs which took heated water from the home's domestic water heater and passed it through a heat-exchanger.

But Beachcomber says this on their website:
"What two features must be in a Hybrid Hot Tub?

Two leading energy saving design features must be in every Hybrid hot tub to lower the energy costs as confirmed by independent testing at the California Polytechnic State University. The two features are maximizing the amount of insulation you put in the hot tub cavity, while minimizing the use of horsepower or motors to reduce the hot tub operation costs. The first feature necessary is our Eco4WALL™ Sealed Insulation Package (highlighted in yellow) . The second feature is the Beachcomber Energy Saver Management System (highlighted in green) .

That's great. But just so you are aware - HotSpring has done this for thirty three years now. They insulate the wall between the motor compartment and the tub (always have), I know it's not as much, but once you hit around three or four inches you are not gaining much in heat retention. HotSpring tubs are also insulated on the bottom of the motor compartment, which I don't believe BC does. The door gets some insulation as well, though it's only an inch or so because that's all the room there is. But that's more than most makers put in that location. AND HotSpring has used smaller pumps than most for a long time. They engineer the plumbing, fittings and jets to get the maximum performance out of more modestly sized pumps - and that is nothing new for them.

SO - I guess if you use the BC definition as copied above, then HotSpring are "HYBRID" hot tubs too!! Yay! New marketing fun!

[ejf The Spa Guy]

Chas well put,
 Then also have to put D1, Sundance, Jacuzzi as Hybrid too!!!!

[Steve]

You mean some hot tub company went ahead and added a MARKETING buzz word to their line??? Nahhhhh 

Steve

[ejf The Spa Guy]

its also as good as the "Exclusive Therapy jet, the Exlusive pump, Exclusive filtering...

[ndabunka]

Hey - I can't help it.

I am a Computer geek & IT Professional with an Engineering degree in Industrial Technology.  I analyze EVERYTHING.

Anyway, Thanks for your input.

Spatech: in a reply in one of my other threads, didn't you say you used to be in upstate NY?  I am just curious where in the state.

Sounds like you and I were cut from the same cloth.  Search on some of my posts and if you are like me the analysis will take you a while.  My Jacuzzi J-370 has been humming along nicely for about 8 years now...

[Scoobmaster]

I agree, I hope he comes back and lets us know which way they go and how it works out.

Hey - I fully intend to and here is a (non) update.

Unfortunately we still have not tested either tub.  Over the past few weeks we have been clobbered with heavy Thunderstorms (not as bad as those poor unfortunate people in tornado alley) and unseasonable warm temperatures.  The storms knocked out power for a few DAYS at the Beachcomber dealer and made a mess of things in the general area all around.  Add to that the temperature boost around Memorial Day weekend and nearly everyone up here rushed to open their pools (making both dealers scramble to meet the influx of pool supplies and service calls).   

They both are back to somewhat normal now and we are back on schedule to test in the next few days.  Hopefully that won't change and I can post an ACTUAL update on our tub quest after that.

[Scoobmaster]

OK - One down and one to go.

We were able to wet test the Beachcomber 350 on Friday and were very impressed.  All three of us (me, wife and son) all identified favorite seats and they were all different (no fighting over the "good seat") so that is a major plus.  I liked the seat with the jets along the spinal region of the back and the calf muscle jets, my son loved the lounge, and my wife ironically likes the seat with only two small back jets opposite the foot massage well.  My wife REALLY liked the powerful foot massage jets (says she could sit there for a full half hour with nothing but those running full blast).  So far this has been the best fit for us yet and we really like it a lot.  I do want to try out the Relay just to see how it feels before we make our decision. (you never know - we may just like it more)

One wrinkle that has just been thrown into the mix is an ad on our local Craiglist for a 12-month old Beachcomber 350 hybrid (yes - the EXACT model we just tested and liked) for about $2400 less than the new price.  I have read that Beachcomber allows ONE transfer of warranty balance - is this true (can someone confirm or deny that?).  Ignoring the result of the upcoming (tonight or tomorrow) HotSpot Relay test, would it be a good buy on the 1 year used Beachcomber 350 IF it is in good shape, was well cared for, and can have the warranty balance transferred?