DESPARATELY NEED HELP

[soak-king]

2011 Limelight warranty is same as Hot Spring.  5 years parts and labor.  It's no secret.  See http://www.limelighthottubs.com/hot_tub_owners.html#hot-tub-concierge?id=warranty-owners-manual

I did not get that memo! Thanks Dan

[jg]

What about Arctic?
I'm totally biased - I work at the factory building Arctic Spas. They are fantastic!
There is a dealer in West Harwich on the Cape, the website is arcticspascapecod.com
There are lots of reasons to choose an Arctic, here are the highlights:
1. Warranty: 5 years on everything, lifetime on the shell.
2. Features: We have them all (ozone, music, lights, TV's, waterfalls, more jets, less jets, any seat design, colors, headrests, aromatherapy, etc etc)
*Arctic options can be added on site anytime in the future. Not sure if you want to spend on ozone, fancy lights, and a third pump with more jets? No problem, all of those things can be added later on site!
3. Easier to fix (and cheaper): After the warranty expires you have to pay somebody! Full access to all components and plumbing - not only one side with pumps and control board. (full foam makes this much harder)
4. Fiberglass base already built in - no need for concrete pad or deck (save $$$, last longer)
5. Cheaper to run: The way we insulate (made for Northern Canada) captures all waste heat from the pump motors and recycles it to help heat the water. There is a third party report here http://www.arcticspas.com/support/downloads/articles/cold-weather-comparison/ but if you think about it it makes sense - trap the heat instead of vent it out the door & all motors produce waste heat. Any foam on the back of the shell or especially full-foam design prevent this recycling of waste motor heat. We had to design them this way because its so cold here in Canada for so much of the year.
6. Price: Might be a few hundred more but for a given size, we have models at the same prices as our main competition.
7. Appearance - the cedar cabinets are BEAUTIFUL. (we have plastic options too but they also fade or get damaged and are MUCH harder to repair)
8. New features forever: New features we release can be added to older spas in the field - we design almost every new thing to be retro-fittable. You never need to replace your hot tub because you want the latest greatest features.
9. THE best cover: holds the weight of at least 2 adults, 5 year warranty, foil barrier prevents waterlogging of the foam core. *most covers last 2 or 3 years tops, then expect to pay about $400 for a new one! - every 2 or 3 years (they become waterlogged)
10. Salt Water Option - built in chlorine generator to reduce time and chemical used (its easy without it but this is an extremely popular option)

OK, thats enough. Please check out our international website www.arcticspas.com or visit the dealer on the Cape (hopefully its not too far - but its a big investment so maybe worth the drive)

Go Arctic!

[ejf The Spa Guy]

jg
Glad to see you aboard,, no problem on your bias,,,we will let that go.
hey a couple things on your response.
1. Lifetime warranty on shell, is it really a lifetime warranty on the sheel, Your warranty states Arctic Spas warrants the spa shell to the customer against water loss due to a structural failure for as long as the shall own the spa...but it only covers cracks,peeling and delaminating for 5 years.. How many spas in the industry do the structures fail and a result of water loss.....But something to remember in the states , most lifetime warranty is 7 years on any product manufactured, But D1 has a lifetime on ultalife , Beachcomber also does,,, 20 year on Clearwater, Thermospas, 10 year on Caldera, Jacuzzi, Sundance, Master, and each of these has some limitations to it....

2. features..... all brands have the same features  waterway jets , balboa or gecko controls, del ozone, led lights arystech or lucite acrylic.

3. add on features in the field, most thermal chamber brands can do this as well, on full foam ozone is an easy install...
4. easier to fix , i sell both styles full foam , thermal chamber,,, yes thermal chambers have easier access to the plumbing, but i do more repairs on thermal chamber than i do my full foam,,less leaks,, but digging out the foam is fairly easy,  but most of your  controls are in one area made again by balboa or gecko so most are on an even playing field, some manufatures make their own and then may have to get from the local dealer...may cost a little bit more but not a big amount,, most spas pumps and compenants come from here in the states or Canada, Where do your pumps come from?
5. cheaper to run,,, I believe Sundance, Jacuzzi, Clearwater, D1, Hot Springs, Caldera, Marquis, are all within in dollars of eachother. and all these brands meet the California Energy ...
6. Price. Most high end brands will have 2 or 3 tiers of spas, this is a push  again your top brands are all going to be close....

7.Appearance, yes to some cedar is beautiful, but so are decks in cedar or redwood but you have to maintain them every year or after a few years it does not look beautiful anymore....I see you are not impressed with you plastic skirting.... most companies use a composite style and most do not fade, especially made from recycled products....
8. features added down the road,,,I don't know about the needing of features down the road, for me having been selling spas a long time i cannot remember the last time i had someone with a 5 or 10 year old spa say i want so add this gadget, or that thingamjig.....
9. Best cover,,, How can you be sure that you have the best cover, i am in the pacific northwest  actually right in your backyard of your apollo factory,,, i do not see my customer go through covers that fast. a matter of fact my own personal tub, 1992 spa which is exposed to the elements, my cover was replaced 2 times , so 2 covers in 20 years...not 3-4 years,,,, alot of brands of cover makers out there with great warranties.

10. Salt water option .. some like them some hate them , some of us have had experience with them and others have heard about them,,, if it works for you or a consumer great... i would not give 10 cents for one,,, i was selling these 5-6 years ago... But Arctic is working on them aren't they on run number 7.


Jg ' Thanks for your input here it is nice to see other passion of their brands, But i felt i needed to input my opinion on your input...There are several very good brands out there. their are many spins anyone can put on theirown brand or others. But from my posts and some of the others D1, Caldera, Sundance, Jacuzzi, Arctic, Marquis, Clearwater, Hot Springs, are high end brands i know i have missed some but from what you listed there are very similiar to what a lot of brands offer.

[Summitman]

1. Lifetime warranty on shell, is it really a lifetime warranty on the sheel, Your warranty states Arctic Spas warrants the spa shell to the customer against water loss due to a structural failure for as long as the shall own the spa...but it only covers cracks,peeling and delaminating for 5 years.. How many spas in the industry do the structures fail and a result of water loss.....But something to remember in the states , most lifetime warranty is 7 years on any product manufactured, But D1 has a lifetime on ultalife , Beachcomber also does,,, 20 year on Clearwater, Thermospas, 10 year on Caldera, Jacuzzi, Sundance, Master, and each of these has some limitations to it....

Read the fineprint on the lifetime warranty on the Arctic Shell, only real limitation on it is on water loss, unlike others fineprint

2. features..... all brands have the same features  waterway jets , balboa or gecko controls, del ozone, led lights arystech or lucite acrylic.

To be fair Arctic doesnt use waterway jets.  They are completely different.  They dont use ball bearings, they dont clip in they thread into position.  They also are all SPINNING jets not small directional jets.  Also Arctic has the option of Global packs that actually connect via bluetooth to your iphone or android.  They have developed this pack on there own that actually has iphone apps(do a iphone app search for arctic spas if you have a iphone) that gives you the option of controlling your arctic spa wirelessly from your house.  Cool feature that lets you stream music from your iphone to the stereo wirelessly.  Lots of other benefits also from this device.
 

3. add on features in the field, most thermal chamber brands can do this as well, on full foam ozone is an easy install...

Lights or stereos like the ones arctic sells wouldnt be possible with a full foam spa. Just not feasible, or they would offer the same options

4. easier to fix , i sell both styles full foam , thermal chamber,,, yes thermal chambers have easier access to the plumbing, but i do more repairs on thermal chamber than i do my full foam,,less leaks,, but digging out the foam is fairly easy,  but most of your  controls are in one area made again by balboa or gecko so most are on an even playing field, some manufatures make their own and then may have to get from the local dealer...may cost a little bit more but not a big amount,, most spas pumps and compenants come from here in the states or Canada, Where do your pumps come from?
 
Pumps come from canada but designed elsewhere, come to my showroom and ill prove to you why ours are better.  Number one thing that causes pumps to go bad are dirt and moisture.  Ours allow much less to penetrate.  

5. cheaper to run,,, I believe Sundance, Jacuzzi, Clearwater, D1, Hot Springs, Caldera, Marquis, are all within in dollars of eachother. and all these brands meet the California Energy ...

CEC energy standards are an absolute joke.  Stay tuned for the Canadian testing that will be done shortly.  CEC rely upon selfreporting standards.  Check out Dynasty results for instance, every one of there models show the same results.  Anyone that knows anything about energy efficiency knows that different sized model of spas (gallons) cant perform the same energy efficiency results

6. Price. Most high end brands will have 2 or 3 tiers of spas, this is a push  again your top brands are all going to be close....

7.Appearance, yes to some cedar is beautiful, but so are decks in cedar or redwood but you have to maintain them every year or after a few years it does not look beautiful anymore....I see you are not impressed with you plastic skirting.... most companies use a composite style and most do not fade, especially made from recycled products....

Our synthetic cabinet is the same as the rest, we just prefer cedar cause it looks nicer.  Plus our synthetic cabinet attaches to a structure of fiberglass resin material that techinaclly outlasts the spa, unlike others that just attach to a cheap wood frame that doesnt outlast.

[ejf The Spa Guy]

summitman thanks for the input ,[/color]


]
1. [

Read the fineprint on the lifetime warranty on the Arctic Shell, only real limitation on it is on water loss, unlike others fineprint
My question on your response is....what good is your lifetime structure warranty if say in 12 years it develops 3 big cracks but does not go thru the shell and backing, yes it is still functional looks like crap, is the customer out of luck because their was not a defect in the structure thus no waterloss??? just asking the questrion...

2.
 [/color] I understand tht jets, Sunbelt uses the same style were they thread in and and a spinner with no bearings...Sundance has done that for years...alot of manufacturers use several size jets in the spas, not just the small directional or some call them hk40, some call them accupressure... Good feature on the global pack if your customer has and Iphone, not all do. Balboa has had a system like it for using a cell phone for diagnostics, I guess if you are a person using the hoit tub and is always worrying about the hot tub running or not from your house and can't walk outside to check it...ok,,, On my own tub i am not married to it were i have to turn it on and off, thata what the sytem does automatically on its filter cycles, or with a 24 hour circ system....but to each his own...

3.
[]
question for you do you have that many customers that want to add lights down the road,,, on the stereo yes it makes it easier, i have done it on both the thermal chamber and once on a full foam,

4.
[
pumps are designed were ,Italy,,,so do they buld them in Canada then ....I remember seeing at the fair this year the tag said built in Italy i will have to pull my picture on that

5. [Your right on the energy testing i do not think it is an absolute joke,I can't believe that Arctic is that far ahead compared to say Clearwater and Master,also thermal chamber spas, Hot Springs ,Sundance, Jacuzzi , D1 Marquis full foam are not that different i believe these top brands and including Artic are all within dollars of each other

7
[going back to that,,,wood frames there is nothing wrong with that,,,if there is no moisture present on the inside the exterior should not fail, if the outside is subjected to say snow ( like we get) or the sun directly hitting during the summer, Arctics will not last any better than these other brands,,, again i think a company using a recycled product to build their exterior it will last since the recycled product has the u.v inhibitors in it already,

Summitman, I see your points you are defending your brand, which is good i would do the same, But again this thread is how it can be spun,,The features you say i do not believe make them better than D1, Sundance, Jacuzzi, Hot Springs, Clearwater, Caldera, Marquis, i think they are all about the same catergory, just have different shapes , looks and operation....  Also that yellow color response damn it is hard to read without highlighting...

[wmccall]

What about Arctic?
I'm totally biased - I work at the factory building Arctic Spas. They are fantastic!

Welcome to the forum.  As many tubs as I've seen, I've never actually seen an Arctic. That is only because there hasn't been that many dealers in Ohio. The website now lists a company here in Columbus, but the address is a residential address, so I assume he is just an authorized rep, no showroom.

[jg]

jg
Glad to see you aboard,, no problem on your bias,,,we will let that go. Grin
hey a couple things on your response.

Thanks for the welcome.
I didnt meant to start a p****** contest, I just got a bit excited and wanted to get our product included in the list of those being considered. No harm done I guess, maybe it helps people shopping.

I'll try to reply to a couple of your questions:

1. Warranty: The full warranty document is on our website. Most only post the summary. Our definition of lifetime is lifetime - to the original owner. If the law says that we are not obliged to cover more than 7 years that doesnt matter, we will give coverage for life. Anyway, the shell and surface have separate coverage as you say. But I have seen lots of hot tub shells with structural failure. Not many of ours since that would make us rethink our warranty coverage, but I have seen structural failure on shells where the foam has been removed for a repair and then not replaced. The foam in a foam filled tub is mainly there for support, its cheaper and quicker than fiberglass. Insulating around everything that can lose heat is obviously better than insulating around some of the things that can lose heat.

2.What I meant to get across was that we have all of the same features offered by our competition, and more. There are too many to get into but one of my favorite is our waterproof wireless TV. It is much better than a pop up TV (we have those now too) because it just mounts on the side of the spa and streams TV or whatever from your TV or DVD player in the house. When done hot tubbing you just grab it and take it inside to use around the house. Very cool.

3. Future upgrades on site: Sorry, have to disagree. Lots of people come into the store a few years after they bought their spa and new features on the tubs and wish they had them. Like salt water systems or more jets. We sell lots of upgrades.

4. Easier to fix. All hot tubs can break down or leak. Removing a door is easier and quicker than removing foam. And if you dont replace the foam you risk structural damage to the shell. The foam is support material contrary to what some sales folks say. And I would bet that foam filled tubs and non-foamed leak at the same rate, but you dont discover the leaks as often with foam filled because it soaks up into the foam for a long time before its noticed. Wet foam doesnt insulate very well and it can get very nasty smelling. --you asked where our pumps are made-- the motor is made in Italy (sealed and externally cooled to prevent moisture and dust damage). The pump (wet end) is made by Pentair I think - not sure on that one. Wet ends rarely fail, its the motor that needs to be top quality.

5.  Cheaper to run. In hot places you are probably right, only a few dollars difference. But its far from hot here in Canada most of the year and in many places in the world. When its 20 below Celcius our hot tubs run away from the pack in terms of energy efficiency. Thats because everything is within the insulated areas, not just the body of water. I just learned recently that even the spa control pack is a significant source of heat loss. I had no idea. Most control packs are right next to a thin door or panel with little or no insulation. And many of these panels are even vented! Alright if you are from SoCal but not if you have winter. And regarding the California Energy Commission standards- they are very weak.

6. Price: agreed, price is a wash. Most people claim we are too expensive, but thats not the case. We do have more expensive models, as do most brands, but for a similar size and specification we are usually only a few hundred more.

7. Cedar vs plastic. We have offered both for years and the cedar is vastly more popular. Maintenance is about 30 minutes a year to wipe a coat of UV protection/stain on the cabinet. Good quality cedar never rots, warps, or gets infested with bugs. Thats why totem poles are still around after hundreds of years.

8. Future upgrades: I think we did this one. We sell lots of upgrades to people years after they bought their spa. Who know what we will invent to add to a hot tub, it could be very useful. Our customers can add it. Its almost as easy as removing a door and plugging it in...ok I exagerate a bit. Sometimes you have to cut a hose or drill a hole. Way easier than dealing with foam.

9.Covers: Ive been around hot tubs a long time. My experience is that covers last about 3-4 years before getting water logged. With our foil foam seal the life is much longer.

10. Salt water option. Yes, we've gone through a few revisions of our design. But it works good now and you dont even need to drain the water to replace the electrode, very cool. Fixing issues with earlier versions was easy because there is no foam to deal with . Just take the door off, do your thing and thats it. You may not like salt water and automatic chlorine generation but LOTS of people do. And for those that are not sure, with an Arctic they can decide later. We just come out, take the door off, add the components and off we go.

Ask 100 techs who have worked on both Arctic and foam filled spas and I think you would find that 99% prefer Arctic.

Gotta go, thanks for the opportunity to do this. Its fun.

[Tman122]

jg
5.  Cheaper to run. In hot places you are probably right, only a few dollars difference. But its far from hot here in Canada most of the year and in many places in the world. When its 20 below Celcius our hot tubs run away from the pack in terms of energy efficiency. Thats because everything is within the insulated areas, not just the body of water. I just learned recently that even the spa control pack is a significant source of heat loss. I had no idea. Most control packs are right next to a thin door or panel with little or no insulation. And many of these panels are even vented! Alright if you are from SoCal but not if you have winter. And regarding the California Energy Commission standards- they are very weak.

In an Arctic sponsored test a Hot Spring came out ahead...huh. Maybe you better look at the data a little closer. Here in Northern Minnesota you have to up the filtering on an Arctic in the winter time, run the pumps more to create the R-Factor. This reduces the effeciency why? Yea because the pumps are running more. What a line of bull!! While Arctic is a fine tub it is no more effecient than several brands on the market no matter if you live in the North Pole or Florida, and the spin put on them is so easy to disect. I could go on and on but whats the point.

[newguy35]

i appreciate the addition of arctic to spas i should consider. however, the discussion has gotten away from my original intent of this post - to get input on the limelight flair, hotsprings sovereign, and caldera martinique.  these are the three tubs, at this point, i wish to focus on.  how would you guys rank these three? does anyone own any of them?

[hottubdan]

I have sold them all.  Price aside:

Sovereign
Flair
Martinique