Need to decide between another Caldera vs. a Hot Springs..

[jellydiamond]

I was just authorized by Watkins to have my Caldera Niagra which is almost 6 yrs old replaced due to a bubble in the shell (along with a couple other things) and the dealer has stated I've been authorized to just get a new Caldera without the cover (we bought a new one however last year so...) or we can "upgrade" to a Hot Springs model of our choice. I think he is pretty biased about Hot Springs being a better made hot tub and tells me ALL the reasons why so I am being swayed but wondered if I would be able to get any opinions in the matter before we make up our mind. We are going in tomorrow afternoon to wet test the Vanguard as that is the one set up but we would prefer the Grandee... problem is I am putting an awful lot of thinking and research into this without knowing AT ALLLL how much the Niagra is worth now (and how much credit therefore we'd have towards an "upgrade") and how much the Grandee is... just today I saw a price tag of I think $10,900 on the Vanguard and he said that was not including the stereo/speakers in the model the price was hanging on.. and I'm sure this also does not include the optional ACE salt system.  How much is the ACE system??

  I have been very happy with the Caldera Niagra and was under the impression it was Watkins top line but according to this salesman it's Hot Springs and he tells me it's superior in so many ways....
that alone makes me nervous. I'm not sure I buy the fact that the 100% filtration is the be all end all.. I've never had a problem with my water really so.... I do like the idea of putting those Tri-X filters or whatever in the dishwasher!!! That is my MOST least favorite chore as I spray it, soak it, and spray it with enough water to practically refill the tub or else we get some foaming and/or don't get all the debris out of the deep bottom of those pleats.

so to end this BOOK (sorry!)  I'd appreciate any input about which tub would be the best for me!! as well as any info on what the prices should be on these tubs at this time. Doesn't seem there is going to be ANY negotiations here!!!

PS- we don't care about the speakers/radio I mentioned earlier- I just thought it was going to be a nice bonus! My main interest is a tub that maintains it heat, is dependable and mostly that is COMFY and has strong theraputic jets! I love the feel of the moto-massage on my hand but will know more after the wet test but read so much about it having issues with stalling mid "stroke" and needing many repairs. I asked him about this and his response was 'let me guess- you read that online".... you can tell I just LOVE him.  I'm interested to see as well what the seats in the Hot Springs feel like as they are so focused on them being "open" or whatever and I just love my "bucket" seats in the Caldera....I can't wait- I am excited about this as a great outcome to what could have been a nightmare! Gotta say that much for Watkins... it took less than 2 hrs for them to tell the service manager the replacement was authorized- I was SO shocked as I had been told they were going to have to drain it again (just did to send her the pictures) and "pop" the bubble to see if it could be repaired- otherwise they'd replace it... yeah for us!!! I know things happen- it's how it's handled that matters!!
Thanks in advance for reading this long post and helping a neurotic woman who just wants to keep my pain under control!!:)

[Bonibelle]

and now to the top

[Vanguard]

Sorry, I quit reading.  Too many sentences without paragraphs makes it too hard to read.

Basic feedback.  Hot Spring Quality=Caldera Quality.  However, you can get the ACE with Hot Spring and you can't with Caldera.  If memory serves, that's about the only difference in accessories offered.

[jellydiamond]

SORRY!! I was brain dead when I finally wrote this last night... Tried to "clean it up" a little bit for you 

Unfortunately I have NO answers still and did not get to wet test today as planned as when I got there I saw a handwritten sign on the door that they were "closed due to electrical failure". Didn't even get a phone call to let me know our appt. was cancelled. grrr
I really wish I had another dealer to work with but truth be told it's really just this one person I think- we've had some negative dealings in the past but I just LOVE the other salesperson there so I am going to email the manager who authorized the new tub to see if I can just work with that salesperson instead. I think things go MUCH smoother if you truly trust the person you are working with and have a good relationship!!

Thanks- I just wish I had some prices on these tubs so I would know how much we'd have to pay to change to a Vanguard or Grandee from the Niagra!!! Guess that is the MOST important question as this may ALL be moot!

[Vanguard]

Okay, first thing - You CAN choose your salesperson.  If you don't want to deal with the one, just tell the manager who you want to deal with and that's that.  You are in charge, not them.

Now, as to Caldera vs Hot Spring.  Yes, you can get a couple of things on Hot Spring that you can't on Caldera.  I can tell you, though, that the quality in Caldera is every bit that of Hot Spring.  The main difference between the two is style and how the seats are designed.  Since you get a choice, then I would wet test just to see if you want to switch.

However, you loved your Niagara.  You know that you'll love it again.  If there is any hesitation when you wet test the Hot Spring, then stay with what you know you love.  Why have many nights of thinking I should have stayed with the Niagara.  After you wet test the Hot Spring, decide if you love it just as much or more.  If you do, then you'll be okay to make the switch, if you don't, then stick with the Caldera. 

In regards to the filter, just get an extra filter for your Caldera.  Always have one on hand that has been soaked in cleaner, then soaked in clean water, then rinsed for a final rinse.  You'll find the process is much easier if you have an extra filter on hand.

[tomsem]

Hi Jellydiamond.

Vangaurd has given you some good advice.  I will add my two cents due to the fact we were looking at the same two tubs (Niagra and Grandee) about three years ago.

The Grandee: I really liked the moto-massage for the short wet test time I was in it.  

The Niagra: I really like the seating arrangement better.  I like that you can have 4 people in each corner with their own "space" vs the horseshoe shape of the Grandee.  I have a family and this comes in handy.

 I also think that there were more smaller "bullet" type jets in the grandee which were a little strong for me compared to the larger opening ones in the Niagra. I also changed out a few stationary jets in mine for rotating. I also like the air pump jets in the Niagra.

One filter is also easier to change than the multiples. Dishwashing something I soak in the same unit as what I dishwash eating utensils in didn't appeal to me.  It's psychological I know, but still.

As you know by now, I purchased a Niagra and have not been sorry.  Other than the moto-massage, I liked the Niagra in every other way. Love mine as well going on three years. Remember, my experience was three years ago. As Vanguard said, check both out and get the one you prefer and good luck with your decision.

 As far as filters go, get a second filter.  Much easier to deal with.  Put your cleaner in a 5 gallon bucket and soak the filter. Give this a try....http://www.rhtubs.com/store/water-wand.htm  ......to get the deep part of the pleats clean. Works great for rinsing. After letting drip dry for a day, I put mine on a floor vent in the house to get the deep part of the pleats dry. A/C or heat, doesn't matter as long as air blows in the center hole.

[jellydiamond]

Thank you both for your advice and taking the time to answer me!!! 
Well.... I wet tested the Vanguard today and though I realllly wanted to like it even more, I just didn't get that AHHH that I get from my Niagra so, that was a no-brainer and I was instantly aware at what a colossal waste of time all my fretting was!!  It was pretty obvious to me within several minutes really. I really did like the dual moto-massage thing but not only did it SOMEhow seem to aggravate my muscles (even turned down) but I could not comfortably relax in the seat! I am SO used to the raised footwell in the Caldera tubs that let you push yourself into your seat to let you really relax and let the jets do their thing! I was slipping and sliding all over- exactly like I have done in so many "loungers" that I personally hate! I liked lots of things about the Vanguard but I just didn't think it would be as wonderful for me and my needs as my current Niagra.... you were SO right in your advice Vangaurd!! Why sit there night after night wishing I'd never made the switch!!! cause trust me, I'm not thinking much of anything at night out there except "ahhh" 

Also a side note to those testing or trying to decide between the two if you've stumbled on this.... Can't go wrong with a Watkins tub period... but if you need therapy for your neck and upper traps etc. then I have found the Caldera Niagra to be a perfect way to get them completely massaged and soaked as it is not only a little deeper but the jets are arranged differently and are different period. There is nothing so far that I can think of that compares to the Orbisage jets on the Niagra and that super duper blast off one in the footwell... if you sit in the seat on the front right (facing the control panel) which by the way lets me open the cover only half-way- you can turn the diverters and get the most powerful massage in the world on your back,neck AND feet!!! you can also use that footwell one on your hamstrings etc.... it really blew the Vanguard's foot jets out of the water- no pun intended, really

Thanks again, and happy happy tubbing!!
ps- Tomsem, Thanks bunches for the link to that site with the hose attachment to clean the filter better. I LOVE it!!!! It's so wonderfully priced and better than the other attachments I've seen. I was almost ready to spend so much more on that big ole contraption I mentioned but this appears to be just perfect!! It solves my exact problem- will save tons of water and make my cleaning time TONS faster. and yes... I'll go back to having a spare filter! I certainly got off track however reading about their "chemical free" spa maintenence products! Has anyone used the Rain Forest Blue? or the others? I have no problems getting the water right with the Baquacil products but I LOVE the idea of a more natural way to treat the water than to soak in those chemicals.... need to look into all that MUCH more! They are also telling me at the dealer that the "silk" product they sell is wonderful (hope that is the right name!) but it's not only like $200 (for around 4 mos) but you still have to shock with a little chlorine... well, that is the easy part- deciding how to maintain the water in my soon to be NEW tub!!!!

[Vanguard]

Glad you wet tested.  Now you will be able to relax in your new spa knowing you made the right decision for you.

[tomsem]

     Hi Jellydiamond,

Glad to see you made your decision and are happy with it.  You brought up another favorite of mine that I forgot to.  The raised footwell is excellent and my wife loves it because she also floated in the Grandee but didn't in the Niagra due to the footwell. Also the volcano jet is awesome.

I looked online at both and they don't look like they have changed much from when I shopped. Have fun and enjoy your new tub!

Glad you like the water wand......I think it works pretty well.