Hot Spring, D1 reliability, ease of repair?

[gordholio99]

Hey everyone:

Okay, through a lot of painstaking research and reading and posting to forums such as this, my wife and I have narrowed it down to a choice between a Hot Spring (likely the Envoy) and a Dimension One (likely the Aurora). We were also considering a Jacuzzi J-335, but knew this was a step down from Jacuzzi's 400 series and was not quite as well built as our other two options.

ANYHOW, I'm seemingly obsessed with the performance of our prospective tub many years down the road, after the warranty has run its course. I'm just looking for the opinions of experts and people who've worked on spas as to which of these two tubs is better built for the long haul, which is easier to work on, which has more annoyingly proprietary parts, etc. And I'm also looking for any neutral info on the insulation inside D1 and Hot Spring spas. One dealer told me the other day that his product is assembled with varying degrees of foam denseness, so that accessing plumbing lines is relatively easy. I have a feeling that both systems involve really dense, really hard foam that'll never be particularly easy to work with, but if anyone knows different, I'd sure love to know about it.

My D1 dealer also hyped the value of D1's UltraPure system, which he says truly saves a lot of money on chemicals and also makes the water far less prone to chemical odors.

Any opinions? Thanks guys.

[Jacuzzi Jim]

 To me the chemical thing is simply a sales pitch, both should use roughly the same and I have yet to see a spa that is totally maintenance/hands free from a chemical standpoint.   As far as ease of repair, both should be the same as well after the warranty is up any of these spas including Jacuzzi rarely have problems that you should have to go digging through foam. Most if anything should be in the equipment area should a problem arise.  That being said I don't know if the Aurora has the sequencing jets or not I have heard the controller for that can be quite expensive?

  Would love to hear why you don't think the Jacuzzi is built as well, I have worked on all 3 brands and don't really see a lot of difference other than what type of components are in the 3.   In my opinion, when looking at top end brands it should come down to how the spa feels and what it does for you vs what kind of foam is in it or the fact its easier to work on down the road. Any spa can have problems regardless of how its built, and if a dealer tells you different he's lying to you.   

  If you have wet tested and feel the HS and D1 work for you don't sweat the small stuff pick the one that you like and fits/feels the best and buy it.

  Good luck, Jim
 

 

[gordholio99]

Thanks, Jim. Yep, we definitely wet-tested everything. Unforunately, I've also read too much info (and too many scare tactics re full foam vs thermal, ABS vs fiberglass, etc). As you likely know, Internet hot tub discussion forums are overlfowing with both real info and pure BS. :-)

I looked inside the Jacuzzi and thought the motor-pump/heater area looked "messy." It seemed to my naive brain that not a ton of serious engineering was involved there. I was also unsure about the "Emerson" motor. And while I definitely don't believe everything I read on all the forums, a trend did seem to appear - people tended to prefer D1 and Hot Spring to Jacuzzi when asked for their top recommended manufacturers. Maybe that's because more D1 and Hot Spring salespeople poluate these forums, but it did seem like a real trend.

I do like the "doghouse" in the D1. I like the fact that there IS a doghouse, and I like that the equipment seems so intelligently laid out within it.

Then again, what do I know? :-)

Thanks again, man.

[Jacuzzi Jim]

 Thanks for the info, I would agree that Jacuzzi could put a bit more emphasis on the equipment area. The majority I see look pretty good either way and they are functional from an operating standpoint.  Pumps we don't replace a lot of so not sure where that info is coming from.  Anyway thanks for the reply.

[Spatech_tuo]

A few brands make the look of the equipment compartment super important but that's a marketing thing IMO. From a plumbing standpoint I'd want the pumps to be situated in such a way that it uses as little hose as possible and as few 45s and 90s as possible. Making everything line up like soldiers parallel to the front looks great but whats going on on the other side of the wall? Do you have to use a 45 to send the hose back toward the back of the spa that you wouldn't have to do if the pump was at an angle? I have no issue with it obviously other than I know its purpose is to make people feel warm and fuzzy but I care about other more tangible things.

[gordholio99]

Thanks Spatech. You've replied to other posts of mine. Do *you* have an opinion on my two choices from a reliability/projected longevity standpoint? It's not easy for a mere consumer to thoroughly inspect everything (though I DO try, much to the annoyance of some dealers) and it's not easy to know what to believe. But I've seen your posts and you seem knowledgeable. And you don't seem like you have an agenda.     

BTW, I opened up a Cal Spa the other day. I didn't see any evident 45s, but I did see an almost throughly kinked main hose leading out of the pump. Interestingly, it didn't look like a mistake. There was no other way it could possibly have gone to where it was supposed to go unless they'd added an extra couple of feet to its length. Not a good omen.

[Vanguard]

From a reliability standpoint, both the D1 and Hot Spring are among the tops.  I agree with JJ that Jacuzzi is up there as well.  Most manufacturers have different levels of spas.  The levels are determined by the amount of "stuff" that goes into the spa.  However, the quality will still be the same.

For instance, Hot Spring also has the Hot Spot line.  Even though the Hot Spot is a much cheaper spa, the quality that goes into it is just as good.  Jacuzzi does the same with their different lines.  Less "stuff," same quality.

From this point, I'd look at two primary things to make your choice.  One, I'd make the determination of which is more comfortable based on your wet test.  Which one did you float in less?  Two, and these are not a ranking of importance, decide which dealer you're more comfortable with. 

If those are equal, then start looking at price, service call charges for down the road or warranty, what stuff you like better.

If still no decision, flip a coin. 

Good Luck.

[Spatech_tuo]

Thanks Spatech. You've replied to other posts of mine. Do *you* have an opinion on my two choices from a reliability/projected longevity standpoint?

I think they're both well made spas and I my have a favorite but in reality they are both top spas, not like the Cal you saw. Go by how well the spas fit you, the deal you're getting obviously, dealer confidence (how long in business, how long with this brand, do they service their own, trip fee amount for warranty work, etc).

[ndabunka]

Hotsprings, Dimemsion One and Jacuzzi are all considered "top brands" with equal reliability and performance.  However, the Dim1 will often be SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive (sometimes $2K of $3K more than an equivalently sized Jacuzzi).  Comparing a Dim1 with a 300-series Jacuzzi isn't really fair (The Dim1 is probably $11K and the 300-series Jacuzzi 335 SHOULD be around $6K).  Is there a reason you didn't compare a 400-series Jacuzzi to the Dim1?  It would still be about $2K less but the bells and whistles on the 400 series line up better to the Dim1.

Price-wise you should see (in decening cost)
    Dimension One
    Hot Springs
    Jacuzzi

[gordholio99]

Hey ndabunka:

In my neck of the woods (west coast of Canada), the Envoy prices out a wee bit higher than both the Auruora and the J-335 (which are basically the same price). The prices you mentioned are *definitely* not the same as they are here. At least not after all the wheeling and dealing I did. :-)

   

[Spatech_tuo]

Comparing a Dim1 with a 300-series Jacuzzi isn't really fair (The Dim1 is probably $11K and the 300-series Jacuzzi 335 SHOULD be around $6K). 

Dim1 has some 11k spas but not the Aurora.

[Tailhooker]

I love my envoy!