What's the Best Hot Tub

Author Topic: Senate adopts "Title 20"  (Read 4727 times)

Eco_Spas

  • Junior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 31
Senate adopts "Title 20"
« on: April 07, 2009, 07:36:47 pm »
Not long ago I posted a thread about "title 20" in California and the "CalPoly Test" and caught alot of flack from people saying it was an inaccurate testing method due to all the variables. Well the APSP and the Senate feel differant and have adopted 'Title 20" with "S.598" and "APSP.14" while saying "its a good starting point for saving energy" So not only is it now becoming a Federal Regulation they are going to make spa efficiency even more efficient ;) ;D
'GREEN' ENGINEER

Hot Tub Forum

Senate adopts "Title 20"
« on: April 07, 2009, 07:36:47 pm »

Vanguard

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1140
Re: Senate adopts "Title 20"
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2009, 09:23:00 pm »
Are you sure it's a Federal Regulation and not just a California State regulation?  Regardless of whether the politicians think it's good, it still doesn't have any kind of real world testing verification.  That is the problem.  All the manufacturers can self-report.  No independent agency for all the testing of all the manufacturers.
The stars at night are big and bright, deep in the heart of Texas and my Vanguard!!!

Spatech_tuo

  • Mentor Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6340
Re: Senate adopts "Title 20"
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2009, 10:54:12 am »
Quote
Not long ago I posted a thread about "title 20" in California and the "CalPoly Test" and caught alot of flack from people saying it was an inaccurate testing method due to all the variables. Well the APSP and the Senate feel differant and have adopted 'Title 20" with "S.598" and "APSP.14" while saying "its a good starting point for saving energy" So not only is it now becoming a Federal Regulation they are going to make spa efficiency even more efficient ;) ;D

Tell us when they're going to use separate 3rd party testing for final verification rather than self reported numbers.
220, 221, whatever it takes!

Eco_Spas

  • Junior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 31
Re: Senate adopts "Title 20"
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2009, 11:25:39 am »
Quote

Tell us when they're going to use separate 3rd party testing for final verification rather than self reported numbers.

 Ive been working on having that changed to "third party testing" but now that its become Federal things should be a little easier for us to do that. I ll keep everyone posted when that happens and what the enforcment will be.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2009, 11:26:28 am by Eco_Spa »
'GREEN' ENGINEER

Spatech_tuo

  • Mentor Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6340
Re: Senate adopts "Title 20"
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2009, 11:36:30 am »
Quote

 Ive been working on having that changed to "third party testing" but now that its become Federal things should be a little easier for us to do that. I ll keep everyone posted when that happens and what the enforcment will be.

Until that happens all of this is just baby steps forward. If we can get to the point where a 3rd party has to confirm some of these hocus pocus spa insulation schemes REALLY pass the standards then we've taken a major leap.

Of course it would be nice to know how much they pass by because one spa could barely pass and while another blows the standard away but I'd be happy if we could at least get some of these bogus claims of energy efficiency confirmed/denied.
220, 221, whatever it takes!

Dr. Spa™ Ret.

  • Ultimate Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3377
  • Retired (mostly) from the industry after 33 years
Re: Senate adopts "Title 20"
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2009, 12:11:55 pm »
HUH! I read the bill, "Appliance Standards Improvement Act of 2009", and there's no mention of spa, hot tubs, or title 20.

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-s598/text

http://energy.senate.gov/public/_files/S598.pdf
« Last Edit: April 08, 2009, 12:13:12 pm by lets »
If you can't sell it on eBay, it may not even qualify as landfill.

Retired (mostly) from the industry after 33 years...but still putzing around with a consumer information website, and trying to sell obsolete owners manuals

Vanguard

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1140
Re: Senate adopts "Title 20"
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2009, 07:07:17 pm »
Quote

 Ive been working on having that changed to "third party testing" but now that its become Federal things should be a little easier for us to do that. I ll keep everyone posted when that happens and what the enforcment will be.


Why do you keep saying that this has become a federal law?  Where are you getting that information?
The stars at night are big and bright, deep in the heart of Texas and my Vanguard!!!

Tman122

  • Ultimate Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4424
  • If it Ain't Broke
Re: Senate adopts "Title 20"
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2009, 08:29:20 pm »
Quote
HUH! I read the bill, "Appliance Standards Improvement Act of 2009", and there's no mention of spa, hot tubs, or title 20.

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-s598/text

http://energy.senate.gov/public/_files/S598.pdf

I read it to and didn't see anything about Portable Hot Tubs????? I musta missed it! Had to of been an oversite on my part. I'm sorry I just didn't see it, must be getting old.

Either that or it's BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D
Retired

Eco_Spas

  • Junior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 31
Re: Senate adopts "Title 20"
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2009, 11:52:19 am »
Quote

I read it to and didn't see anything about Portable Hot Tubs????? I musta missed it! Had to of been an oversite on my part. I'm sorry I just didn't see it, must be getting old.

Either that or it's BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D

The link that Andy posted to the S.598 is from march 16th, thats not the correct one you need to look at the updated S.598 from march 27th. and as for the APSP-14 that is still being wrote. Just thought I would give everyone the heads up before it goes into effect.  If you still think its BS just contact Carvin at the APSP and ask him yourself.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2009, 11:53:15 am by Eco_Spa »
'GREEN' ENGINEER

Jacuzzi Jim

  • Ultimate Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3584
Re: Senate adopts "Title 20"
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2009, 01:33:39 pm »
 So by giving us a heads up, what exactly are we suppose to keep a heads up for??

To me this seems more like a Manufacturer issue which includes all of us as dealers, but we don't build the things, and I am sure the manufacturers are well aware of whats going on and will comply if needed,if it gets to that.  

 To me it seems someone in the private sector is trying to save his job by creating BS issues about the energy efficiency of refrigerators and dishwashers.  How much more efficient can a refrigerator get, same goes with a spa, I am sure they could tighten the noose a bit, but at some point a spa or dishwasher for that matter can only get so efficient?   If a spa is say 90% efficient in S,California will it be 90% efficient in Fargo ND in the middle of winter?

 Call me confused and I may be reading this wrong so forgive me if that's so?

Dr. Spa™ Ret.

  • Ultimate Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3377
  • Retired (mostly) from the industry after 33 years
Re: Senate adopts "Title 20"
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2009, 01:40:09 pm »
Come on now Jess. The few of us that figured out who you are, are patiently waiting for you to start spamming your "product". How much longer are we going to have to wait?
If you can't sell it on eBay, it may not even qualify as landfill.

Retired (mostly) from the industry after 33 years...but still putzing around with a consumer information website, and trying to sell obsolete owners manuals

Dr. Spa™ Ret.

  • Ultimate Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3377
  • Retired (mostly) from the industry after 33 years
Re: Senate adopts "Title 20"
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2009, 01:45:54 pm »
This (meaning this post) is all perpetrated by "someone" that has a new design for a spa cover that they believe (what designer doesn't believe in their own product) is the "better mouse trap". In reality, it's no better than any cover with a fully insulated hinge. The biggest disadvantage, beside the added manufacturing cost, passed on to the consumer of course, is that the cover incorporates a custom integrated cover lifter, meaning that when it's time to replace the cover (if you want to continue using the lift), you have NO choice but to go back to the original manufacture for the cover.




Quote
So by giving us a heads up, what exactly are we suppose to keep a heads up for??

To me this seems more like a Manufacturer issue which includes all of us as dealers, but we don't build the things, and I am sure the manufacturers are well aware of whats going on and will comply if needed,if it gets to that.  

 To me it seems someone in the private sector is trying to save his job by creating BS issues about the energy efficiency of refrigerators and dishwashers.  How much more efficient can a refrigerator get, same goes with a spa, I am sure they could tighten the noose a bit, but at some point a spa or dishwasher for that matter can only get so efficient?   If a spa is say 90% efficient in S,California will it be 90% efficient in Fargo ND in the middle of winter?

 Call me confused and I may be reading this wrong so forgive me if that's so?
If you can't sell it on eBay, it may not even qualify as landfill.

Retired (mostly) from the industry after 33 years...but still putzing around with a consumer information website, and trying to sell obsolete owners manuals

Eco_Spas

  • Junior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 31
Re: Senate adopts "Title 20"
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2009, 02:42:07 pm »
Quote
Come on now Jess. The few of us that figured out who you are, are patiently waiting for you to start spamming your "product". [glow]How much longer are we going to have to wait[/glow]?

HAHAHA!!  Sorry Andy, but youll have to wait for a awile. Im guessing cause 1. Im not Jess, yes i did work for him awile ago 2. He can push his own product I just test them. 3. Yes, Ive tested your cover also and although I dont see where you came up with R-21?but its a very nice cover ;D

  
'GREEN' ENGINEER

hottubdan

  • Ultimate Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2323
  • In the spa business for over 20 years.
Re: Senate adopts "Title 20"
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2009, 02:57:38 pm »
Eco,

The March 16th is all that is on http://energy.senate.gov/public/

If you have updated info, please post and post a link. :'(
Award winning Hot Spring dealer for a gazillion years.

Dr. Spa™ Ret.

  • Ultimate Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3377
  • Retired (mostly) from the industry after 33 years
Re: Senate adopts "Title 20"
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2009, 02:59:54 pm »
1 pound EPS foam = R-3.85 per inch

6 x 4 tapered cover, average thickness 5" = R-19.25

polyethylene = R-0.85

subtotal = R-20.1

Add the R value of the vinyl top side and scrim underside, and it's an easy R-21. And this assumes a cover 8' long. As it gets shorter, the R value goes up (smaller covers are made by cutting away the thinnest part of the cover)
If you can't sell it on eBay, it may not even qualify as landfill.

Retired (mostly) from the industry after 33 years...but still putzing around with a consumer information website, and trying to sell obsolete owners manuals

Hot Tub Forum

Re: Senate adopts "Title 20"
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2009, 02:59:54 pm »

 

Home    Buying Guide    Featured Products    Forums    Reviews    About    Contact   
Copyright ©1998-2024, Whats The Best, Inc. All rights reserved. Site by Take 42