Senate adopts "Title 20"

[Eco_Spas]

Not long ago I posted a thread about "title 20" in California and the "CalPoly Test" and caught alot of flack from people saying it was an inaccurate testing method due to all the variables. Well the APSP and the Senate feel differant and have adopted 'Title 20" with "S.598" and "APSP.14" while saying "its a good starting point for saving energy" So not only is it now becoming a Federal Regulation they are going to make spa efficiency even more efficient

[Vanguard]

Are you sure it's a Federal Regulation and not just a California State regulation?  Regardless of whether the politicians think it's good, it still doesn't have any kind of real world testing verification.  That is the problem.  All the manufacturers can self-report.  No independent agency for all the testing of all the manufacturers.

[Spatech_tuo]

Not long ago I posted a thread about "title 20" in California and the "CalPoly Test" and caught alot of flack from people saying it was an inaccurate testing method due to all the variables. Well the APSP and the Senate feel differant and have adopted 'Title 20" with "S.598" and "APSP.14" while saying "its a good starting point for saving energy" So not only is it now becoming a Federal Regulation they are going to make spa efficiency even more efficient

Tell us when they're going to use separate 3rd party testing for final verification rather than self reported numbers.

[Eco_Spas]

Tell us when they're going to use separate 3rd party testing for final verification rather than self reported numbers.

 Ive been working on having that changed to "third party testing" but now that its become Federal things should be a little easier for us to do that. I ll keep everyone posted when that happens and what the enforcment will be.

[Spatech_tuo]

 Ive been working on having that changed to "third party testing" but now that its become Federal things should be a little easier for us to do that. I ll keep everyone posted when that happens and what the enforcment will be.

Until that happens all of this is just baby steps forward. If we can get to the point where a 3rd party has to confirm some of these hocus pocus spa insulation schemes REALLY pass the standards then we've taken a major leap.

Of course it would be nice to know how much they pass by because one spa could barely pass and while another blows the standard away but I'd be happy if we could at least get some of these bogus claims of energy efficiency confirmed/denied.

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

HUH! I read the bill, "Appliance Standards Improvement Act of 2009", and there's no mention of spa, hot tubs, or title 20.

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-s598/text

http://energy.senate.gov/public/_files/S598.pdf

[Vanguard]

 Ive been working on having that changed to "third party testing" but now that its become Federal things should be a little easier for us to do that. I ll keep everyone posted when that happens and what the enforcment will be.

Why do you keep saying that this has become a federal law?  Where are you getting that information?

[Tman122]

HUH! I read the bill, "Appliance Standards Improvement Act of 2009", and there's no mention of spa, hot tubs, or title 20.

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-s598/text

http://energy.senate.gov/public/_files/S598.pdf

I read it to and didn't see anything about Portable Hot Tubs?? I musta missed it! Had to of been an oversite on my part. I'm sorry I just didn't see it, must be getting old.

Either that or it's BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Eco_Spas]

I read it to and didn't see anything about Portable Hot Tubs?? I musta missed it! Had to of been an oversite on my part. I'm sorry I just didn't see it, must be getting old.

Either that or it's BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The link that Andy posted to the S.598 is from march 16th, thats not the correct one you need to look at the updated S.598 from march 27th. and as for the APSP-14 that is still being wrote. Just thought I would give everyone the heads up before it goes into effect.  If you still think its BS just contact Carvin at the APSP and ask him yourself.

[Jacuzzi Jim]

 So by giving us a heads up, what exactly are we suppose to keep a heads up for??

To me this seems more like a Manufacturer issue which includes all of us as dealers, but we don't build the things, and I am sure the manufacturers are well aware of whats going on and will comply if needed,if it gets to that.  

 To me it seems someone in the private sector is trying to save his job by creating BS issues about the energy efficiency of refrigerators and dishwashers.  How much more efficient can a refrigerator get, same goes with a spa, I am sure they could tighten the noose a bit, but at some point a spa or dishwasher for that matter can only get so efficient?   If a spa is say 90% efficient in S,California will it be 90% efficient in Fargo ND in the middle of winter?

 Call me confused and I may be reading this wrong so forgive me if that's so?

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

Come on now Jess. The few of us that figured out who you are, are patiently waiting for you to start spamming your "product". How much longer are we going to have to wait?

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

This (meaning this post) is all perpetrated by "someone" that has a new design for a spa cover that they believe (what designer doesn't believe in their own product) is the "better mouse trap". In reality, it's no better than any cover with a fully insulated hinge. The biggest disadvantage, beside the added manufacturing cost, passed on to the consumer of course, is that the cover incorporates a custom integrated cover lifter, meaning that when it's time to replace the cover (if you want to continue using the lift), you have NO choice but to go back to the original manufacture for the cover.

So by giving us a heads up, what exactly are we suppose to keep a heads up for??

To me this seems more like a Manufacturer issue which includes all of us as dealers, but we don't build the things, and I am sure the manufacturers are well aware of whats going on and will comply if needed,if it gets to that.  

 To me it seems someone in the private sector is trying to save his job by creating BS issues about the energy efficiency of refrigerators and dishwashers.  How much more efficient can a refrigerator get, same goes with a spa, I am sure they could tighten the noose a bit, but at some point a spa or dishwasher for that matter can only get so efficient?   If a spa is say 90% efficient in S,California will it be 90% efficient in Fargo ND in the middle of winter?

 Call me confused and I may be reading this wrong so forgive me if that's so?

[Eco_Spas]

Come on now Jess. The few of us that figured out who you are, are patiently waiting for you to start spamming your "product". [glow]How much longer are we going to have to wait[/glow]?

HAHAHA!!  Sorry Andy, but youll have to wait for a awile. Im guessing cause 1. Im not Jess, yes i did work for him awile ago 2. He can push his own product I just test them. 3. Yes, Ive tested your cover also and although I dont see where you came up with R-21?but its a very nice cover

  

[hottubdan]

Eco,

The March 16th is all that is on http://energy.senate.gov/public/

If you have updated info, please post and post a link.

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

1 pound EPS foam = R-3.85 per inch

6 x 4 tapered cover, average thickness 5" = R-19.25

polyethylene = R-0.85

subtotal = R-20.1

Add the R value of the vinyl top side and scrim underside, and it's an easy R-21. And this assumes a cover 8' long. As it gets shorter, the R value goes up (smaller covers are made by cutting away the thinnest part of the cover)