Trip fee's again

[stuart]

Stu,

I own a spa dealership so I understand where you are coming from.  The dealer covers it under the assumption that my guys didnt teach the customer good enough how to take care of the spa.  You know what, this kind of service to reasonable customers is EXCELLENT at getting you referals.  I do know where you are coming from, it sounds like maybe you should consider a increase in your spa pricing.

I think you missed my original post...I'm not complaining about my margins although in order to stay competitive in this market we've had to drop a lot. I'm frustrated with people that don't get trip charges after they've been explained over and over again.

They are told at the point of sale, their warranty states it and they are told when they call for service. It's not an odd or new concept.

We get a ton of referrals and many people are thrilled that we do so much for our trip fee however...there are a lot people that will fight you, lie to you, blame you and basically cheat you in order to not read their manual or take any responsibility themselves.

The other thing I'm doing here is laying the groundwork for the fact that our industry techs are worth more then they are getting. These guys have to be plumbers, electricians and electronic techs and their time should be billed accordingly. If we are going to be professionals then lets get paid for it! The flip side of this is that we also need to dress, act and educate ourselves like professionals also.

I would venture to say that customers will fight a spa tech over a bill much more than they would a plumber or electrician.

You want to know the funny part...depending on what this lady's actual problem is when we get out there I would have probably not charged her this call but considering the way she verbally abused everyone in the store I will.

I’m really not looking for advise here….I think those on the board that know me understand that I have a pretty good grip on owning and running a store in addition to enough experience to say that I’ve probably seen most of what goes on in the spa industry. I’m just venting to friends about a pet peeve.

Last but not least, I am complaining about service not always being a profit margin in our industry. We need to have a steady revenue in sales, supplies and service but as an industry we've backed ourselves into a corner trying to see who can give away the best warranty and then offset the costs on the dealers.

We need to change that and again standardize it a bit....the problem is it will never happen because no one wants to be first and not everyone would play fair.

[Summitman]

Im not asking you to take my advice, I just dont really like the idea of being on a consumer board complaining about consumers is all.  Your right this industry needs more respect to continue on, but you are venting to friends (which is fine) for the whole consumer world to see.  Service is and always has been a profitable part of my business, so maybe you could take some advice on that.  

[stuart]

Im not asking you to take my advice, I just dont really like the idea of being on a consumer board complaining about consumers is all.  Your right this industry needs more respect to continue on, but you are venting to friends (which is fine) for the whole consumer world to see.  Service is and always has been a profitable part of my business, so maybe you could take some advice on that.  

I think consumers really need to hear some of the challenges we face...I gotta tell you that not everyone makes a profit on their service dept....I do, and I hope everyone (consumers and industry people) understand the necessity of that.

As far as your advice...I didn't say I wasn't welcoming it I said I was not really posting for that. Everyone's area is different; I would love to PM you and ask some questions about your area and how you do your service department. The day I can't learn something is the day I need a new job!!!

My Father was a blacksmith and farrier...He often told me that we need to constantly train people how to handle their horses in order to create good customers. I was surprised at the something as minor as holding a horse made all the differance to us when we where down there shoeing.

The internet hurts our business so often I think it's good that we can use it for good to  train consumers on how to handle their horses on a broad scale and help ourselves in the long run.

[Summitman]

I think consumers really need to hear some of the challenges we face...I gotta tell you that not everyone makes a profit on their service dept....I do, and I hope everyone (consumers and industry people) understand the necessity of that.

As far as your advice...I didn't say I wasn't welcoming it I said I was not really posting for that. Everyone's area is different; I would love to PM you and ask some questions about your area and how you do your service department. [glow]The day I can't learn something is the day I need a new job!!![/glow]

My Father was a blacksmith and farrier...He often told me that we need to constantly train people how to handle their horses in order to create good customers. I was surprised at the something as minor as holding a horse made all the differance to us when we where down there shoeing.

The internet hurts our business so often I think it's good that we can use it for good to  train consumers on how to handle their horses on a broad scale and help ourselves in the long run.

Im a firm believer in this, I visit this site daily for this reason alone.  I only wish I knew what I know now ten years ago, when I was so raw.  I sit back and look at how I handle certain things back then and can only laugh now.  And dont get me wrong those that successfully service customers daily should be well rewarded in the long run and deservedly so.

I agree that the internet hurts our business, this site alone has cost my business three spa deals in the past six months from some of the mud slinging that goes on.  Sad thing is two of the three spa deals decided to NOT buy at all.  All three being good people that got some untruthful advice via the internet.  And only one of those good people are soaking in hot water daily now.  We need to be very careful about whats said and done on the internet with our industry and be sure we understand sarcasm and inside jokes are hard to see from the consumer end.  

[stuart]

Im a firm believer in this, I visit this site daily for this reason alone.  I only wish I knew what I know now ten years ago, when I was so raw.  I sit back and look at how I handle certain things back then and can only laugh now.  And dont get me wrong those that successfully service customers daily should be well rewarded in the long run and deservedly so.

I agree that the internet hurts our business; this site alone has cost my business three spa deals in the past six months from some of the mud slinging that goes on.  Sad thing is two of the three spa deals decided to NOT buy at all.  All three being good people that got some untruthful advice via the internet.  And only one of those good people are soaking in hot water daily now.  We need to be very careful about whats said and done on the internet with our industry and be sure we understand sarcasm and inside jokes are hard to see from the consumer end.  

I've been on this board for almost 5 years and can honestly say that I don't think it's ever "cost" me a sale. On the contrary I've been able to help people all over the country that have had issues or questions on spas.

Maybe the internet is researched differant in KS but here in Colorado many of my cusotmers have logged on to get informed better.

We all have challenged differences in the brands represented here and even had some pretty heated discussions however I think consumers learn from that.

[Summitman]

consider yourself lucky then
 

Sometimes the "debates" are a bit more than that and become little deceiving.

[Gary]

Here is another twist, the selling dealer goes out of business and he built in extra cost for warranty so he did not charge a travel fee. The manufacturer finds a new warranty center but they chose to charge a travel fee since they did not make the money up front. Should the manufacturer now pay the travel fee? I would say no.  

Bottom line is someone is going to pay, the manufacturer can charge more, the dealer can charge more or since most spas (at least the better brands) never need a warranty call the consumer can pay less for the spa and they may have to pay if they need a warranty call.

Maybe manufacturers can start doing exactly what the warranty states, if they did that probably 50% of so called warranty calls would not be.

I would like to see a 2-year warranty, after the first year 80% of calls are the consumers fault anyways (whether they know or not).

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

I always though the bottom line is, the consumer is going to pay. Either it's built into the initial price of the spa, or as a "copay".

I'm willing to bet, given the choice of $x for the spa which includes a "complete" warranty, OR $x - $y for the spa and there will be a copay for any required warranty work, 99% would chose the later.

[Bonibelle]

Look at what has happened to warranties on other products. They are much shorter than they were years ago. If you want an extended warranty, you have to buy it.  Maybe spas should be the same way. That way you go in with open eyes and understand just what the dealer can and will do and how much it will cost.

I think people object to the trip charge because sales people make warranties such a big part of the deal...And it is natural to assume that a better warranty translates to a better product, whether that is the case or not. I think most people who buy tubs don't want to think about repairs because for most, spa repair isn't a do it yourself thing. So they want a warranty that says...We will repair anything that shouldn't be wrong with the product at no cost to the buyer.

Sorry Chris but the logic that the customer isn't bringing the spa to the shop doesn't fly.  Just like my plumber..where is he going to do business for me if not at my house? The grocery store doesn't pay me to come shop there... :-/

[Bonibelle]

Doc is right...it's like a gamble..and especially in this economy..people will go with the less expensive choice and hope for the best...

But if a sales person is pushing the wonderful warranty, then the customer should expect to get a wonderful warranty...whether the dealer builds trip charges into the price or the manufacturer picks it up.

[zroger73]

I never even asked about trip fees when I purchased my hot tub. I assumed any warranty repairs would be completely free of charge, as they should be. The small reimbursement from the manufacturer along with the healthy profit my dealer made from my sale should cover incidentals.

If my pump motor dies because it has a bad winding, I would expect to not be out a dime for the replacement. On the other hand, if it burns up because it was full of leaves and algae, then that's MY fault and I would expect to be responsible for the repair. Fortunately, I'm intelligent enough to know the difference.

If you purchase a new car, the manufacturer and dealer absorb 100% of the parts and labor cost of a warranty repair. Most brands will also pay for towing back to the dealer and some will provide a loaner. A few others will even reimburse you for meals and lodging if the breakdown occurs away from "home". My Infiniti provides all these benefits and it's by no means the most prestigious brand out there. Also, warranties have increased on automobiles over the years. It used to be 12 months or 12,000 miles. Then the standard became 36 months or 36,000 miles. Most brands offer significantly longer standard warranties than that these days such as Hyundai's 10 year or 100,000 mile powertrain warranty.

Laptops (even "cheap" ones under $500) will typically pay for shipping costs to and from a service center. I realize far more laptops and cars are sold than hot tubs, but there's a lot more profit in hot tubs than in consumer electronics or cars. When you scale production and overhead costs, there's no excuse to have to pay for a warranty repair for a hot tub.

[Bonibelle]

Definately right about car warranties. I am thinking about my dishwasher warranty and the 90 days on most electronics.

[stuart]

I never even asked about trip fees when I purchased my hot tub. I assumed any warranty repairs would be completely free of charge, as they should be. The small reimbursement from the manufacturer along with the healthy profit my dealer made from my sale should cover incidentals.

If my pump motor dies because it has a bad winding, I would expect to not be out a dime for the replacement. On the other hand, if it burns up because it was full of leaves and algae, then that's MY fault and I would expect to be responsible for the repair. Fortunately, I'm intelligent enough to know the difference.

If you purchase a new car, the manufacturer and dealer absorb 100% of the parts and labor cost of a warranty repair. Most brands will also pay for towing back to the dealer and some will provide a loaner. A few others will even reimburse you for meals and lodging if the breakdown occurs away from "home". My Infiniti provides all these benefits and it's by no means the most prestigious brand out there. Also, warranties have increased on automobiles over the years. It used to be 12 months or 12,000 miles. Then the standard became 36 months or 36,000 miles. Most brands offer significantly longer standard warranties than that these days such as Hyundai's 10 year or 100,000 mile powertrain warranty.

Laptops (even "cheap" ones under $500) will typically pay for shipping costs to and from a service center. I realize far more laptops and cars are sold than hot tubs, but there's a lot more profit in hot tubs than in consumer electronics or cars. When you scale production and overhead costs, there's no excuse to have to pay for a warranty repair for a hot tub.

So your car is 25K plus and yet they make you bring it in and leave it for the repair. They don't come to your house and crawl under your deck to fix anything.

I think you would be shocked to learn what how little most dealers actually make on a spa sale after all costs are paid out. When the public is under the impression that all spas are similar and the cost they see on the Internet should be a baseline you have to struggle to make margin.

I understand your stand on the warranty as a consumer myself but we’re dealing with an industry that is less than 5% saturated and still pretty young. When we get to the point that we have as much market share as Cars and consumer electronics our volume will be such that we can worry less about margin and more about numbers.

[Bizdoc]

In my spa purchase last month, the trip fee was part of the negotiation with the dealer.  I got him to extend the trip fee waiver from 12 months to 24.  In addition, my mastercard has a buyer protection plan that extends the manufacturer's warrrantee for 12 months.  The dealer's willingness to extend the "no trip fee" time helped close the sale.  If he was willing to back the spa in that way, I felt he thought highly enough of the brands he sold to put his own $ on the line for after sale service.

Recommendations to buyers:
1. If dealer has a trip fee, negotiate a "no-fee" time.
2. Check into a credit card warranty extension

[East_TX_Spa]

I never even asked about trip fees when I purchased my hot tub.

We didn't discuss it because we do not charge trip fees.  We factor all of these costs into our pricing in order to give the customer one less thing to have to worry about.

Glad to know you're still enjoying your spa.  We are set up out at Maude Cobb Convention Center for the boat show all weekend.  Sold a Jetsetter and Grandee w/ SpaStone surround yesterday.  I've already sold more spas in January than I did from August until Christmas last year!  I figure folks have either realized that the sky is not falling or that it really IS falling and they might as well watch it fall from the comfort of a hot tub.

Gotta go...ya'll have a great weekend!

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