Trip fee's again

[stuart]

So I've just spent the last 30 minuets on the phone with a woman that was hostile because she has to pay a trip fee on a spa that is 45 miles away and is not getting over 95 degrees.

First off, she was told about the trip fee at purchase, second it's in her warranty, third my best guess is that if the spa is heating to 95 she's doing something wrong anyway(usually if it heats at all without error codes it's an operator error).

In my conversation with her she first told me that she never had a problem with her 10 year old hotspring then later told me that when they came out on service with her hotspring she never paid a trip fee. :-/ I asked her before I hung up why she traded it and she said it was because it had more problems than were worth fixing. :-?

At that point I reaffirmed that she did indeed have service calls on it and let her know that I actually sold her that spa 10 years ago. I also explained that I was making the exact same amount from the factory on warranty that I made 10 years ago even though insurance, wages, fuel, vehicles and generally everything went up since then except my reimbursement from the factory. I also explained that I agreed it was unfair that we had to charge a trip fee but the factory put the increased costs back in my lap by not increasing warranty rates.

Finally I pointed out that she paid over $8500 for her spa 10 years earlier and only paid $5000 for this new one. She still never got it and just relented to pay the trip fee while she continued to ramble.

Funny, I just wrote an article this week, for Spa Retailer, on finding new revenue streams to stay afloat in a down economy and referenced charging trip fees.

It really is unfair if you think about it.... when I had my cancer surgery I was shocked but the incidental charges on my bill including a $250 charge for a syringe. This last week I took my puppy to get spayed and a $37 bill inflated to $189 with incidental charges. The operation was included in the pound fees but that didn't cover IV, anesthesia, collar, heart/liver check while under and disposal material after.

Look at your phone bill or cable bill and see all the extra charges that weren't there in your monthly service quote when you signed up yet we're evil for charging a trip fee under warranty!  

I can’t be more upfront than to tell people when they are purchasing the spa!

[thomas07]

Stu, Everything you said makes sense but i know as a consumer, I was shocked when I was charged a trip fee when it really is the manufacturer that should be standing behind their product and eating that cost. That should not be the dealer nor the consumer who should have to pay a charge to rectify a problem.....unless it is something the consumer caused..whats the point of a warranty if you as a consumer has to pay for a problem to be rectified. I am not sure how other hot tub manufacturers deal with it. I tend to think Watkins has a good track record with their quality and hopefully their not making a ton of warranty trips out.

[stuart]

Stu, Everything you said makes sense but i know as a consumer, I was shocked when I was charged a trip fee when it really is the manufacturer that should be standing behind their product and eating that cost. That should not be the dealer nor the consumer who should have to pay a charge to rectify a problem.....unless it is something the consumer caused..whats the point of a warranty if you as a consumer has to pay for a problem to be rectified. I am not sure how other hot tub manufacturers deal with it. I tend to think Watkins has a good track record with their quality and hopefully their not making a ton of warranty trips out.

Don't kid yourself...Watkins has as many service calls as anyone but they are good at training and encouraging dealers in handling them. See that's the key from the manufacture...not ticking the customer off and then the service calls go down as just a hiccup. If you create pain then the customer will yell!

Again, you pay a service fee above and beyond on just about everything you do...Your cable bills, your phone bill, extra disposal fees when you get your oil changed and so on.

How about this, most of us pay insurance every month at a pricey premium yet when we go to the Dr. we have to pay a ”Co-pay". Maybe our problem with the spa industry is nomenclature...maybe we should just call it a "Co-pay" and people would blindly pay it like they do on medical.

[Summitman]

The key here is it would be nice as an industry to not be lumped in with insurance companies.  I dont think we want that.

[michiganwinter]

You don't have a warranty on the phone service, and if the phone goes dead because of something that happens on the phone companies end, they don't charge a trip fee. Doctors don't have warranties, nor do operations and the associated upcharges.

war·ran·ty  (wôrn-t, wr-)
n. pl. war·ran·ties
1. Official authorization, sanction, or warrant.
2. Justification or valid grounds for an act or a course of action.
3. Law
a. An assurance by the seller of property that the goods or property are as represented or will be as promised.
b. The insured's guarantee that the facts are as stated in reference to an insurance risk or that specified conditions will be fulfilled to keep the contract effective.
c. A covenant by which the seller of land binds himself or herself and his or her heirs to defend the security of the estate conveyed.
d. A judicial writ; a warrant.
4. A[glow] guarantee given to the purchaser by a company stating that a product is reliable and free from known defects and that the seller will, without charge, repair or replace defective parts within a given time limit and under certain conditions.[/glow]

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/warranty

People buy new tubs to get the warranty so there will be fewer surprises, right?

[Water Boy]

We have never charged a trip fee for a warranty service call, even when gas was four dollars a gallon. Some dealers do and some dealers don't, but I always make a point to tell customers that are shopping for spas that we don’t, and that alone makes it worth it for some when it is close between two brands of spas. No trip fees makes them all very happy!

I personally feel that if a person spends 6-12k on a hot tub, and it has a warranty, there shouldn't be fees or trip charges, but that is just my belief.

I can understand why Stuart and other dealers on here charge their fees. But, must customers don't care about dealer expenses, they only want their spa fixed.

[Chris_H]

I am sure Stuart would not have charged the consumer a fee if they brought the spa to him.  

[stuart]

The bottom line is this...Most manufactures pay $40-$70 for a warranty service. This doesn't include the time it takes to get to the sight, the hours involved in reconciling the paperwork, boxing parts and shipping them, stocking parts, running to supply store for glue and plumbing and certainly doesn't include extra time on the job for draining, moving the spa or even getting into the problem and troubleshooting.

As I stated before, everything has gone up substantially...insurance, gas, wages and so on but spas have not. In fact to be more specific, margins have gone down over the years and wholesale has inched up. Where we used to be able to cover some of the cost of warranty calls in the sale price of the spa, we can't now days.

Spas have also gotten much more complicated and troubleshooting is a whole different animal. An example of that would be an error code on a D1 bay series...there are 3 to 4 circuit boards talking with up to 5 pumps (including circ pumps) and a mass of wires. Not only that these pumps and boards are not behind the same panel so your pulling the whole cabinet apart sometimes to find a problem. A $50 service reimbursement doesn't begin to cover this.

Don't get me wrong...I love the challenge of some of these calls however, dealers are going broke sometimes supporting manufacture issues.

I would agree that manufacture should cover what they claim however it's a give and take, they already give longer and more inclusive warranties than most auto manufactures. I for one would be happy if the industry would get together and standardize warranties and bit and make them more workable for everyone.

Do you realize that most warranty calls really relate to water chemistry and get covered anyway?

Let's not overlook this part of your dictionary lesson....b. The insured's guarantee that the facts are as stated in reference to an insurance risk or that specified conditions will be fulfilled to keep the contract effective.

Every warranty I know of states “dealer service and/or trip fee’s may apply” implying that they don’t pay for our service of coming out to the house or even the troubleshooting, they simply pay for the time to repair the defect. That written warranty is your contract!

Has anyone had a TV repairman out lately? Did they cover everything under warranty? I'm really wondering what other industries do....?

I am sure Stuart would not have charged the consumer a fee if they brought the spa to him.  

See! Now you understand!!!

[Summitman]

All these are reasons that the dealers have to decide if they should charge more for the spas upfront, or charge service calls.  If I were to implement a service call charge on warranty work I would make all my spa sales sign off on the notion.  I personally charge more for the spa, and then dont have the hassle of explaining warranty service call charges.  

[michiganwinter]

While I understand where you are coming from on this Stuart, all dealers need to consider customer service. In the end, a dealership with excellent customer service will prevail in poor times as well as good times, because customers are the life-blood of any business. Start treating the customer with disrespect or what they see to be unfairly, and it will magnify and undo a lot of previous good that may have been done. This spa forum seems to be heavily trafficked by dealers. It is a very good medium to listen to the customers who pay for these spas and see what their take is on things.

Cheers

[Summitman]

The bottom line is this...Most manufactures pay $40-$70 for a warranty service. This doesn't include the time it takes to get to the sight, the hours involved in reconciling the paperwork, boxing parts and shipping them, stocking parts, running to supply store for glue and plumbing and certainly doesn't include extra time on the job for draining, moving the spa or even getting into the problem and troubleshooting.

As I stated before, everything has gone up substantially...insurance, gas, wages and so on but spas have not. In fact to be more specific, margins have gone down over the years and wholesale has inched up. Where we used to be able to cover some of the cost of warranty calls in the sale price of the spa, we can't now days.

Spas have also gotten much more complicated and troubleshooting is a whole different animal. An example of that would be an error code on a D1 bay series...there are 3 to 4 circuit boards talking with up to 5 pumps (including circ pumps) and a mass of wires. Not only that these pumps and boards are not behind the same panel so your pulling the whole cabinet apart sometimes to find a problem. A $50 service reimbursement doesn't begin to cover this.

Don't get me wrong...I love the challenge of some of these calls however, dealers are going broke sometimes supporting manufacture issues.

I would agree that manufacture should cover what they claim however it's a give and take, they already give longer and more inclusive warranties than most auto manufactures. I for one would be happy if the industry would get together and standardize warranties and bit and make them more workable for everyone.

[glow]Do you realize that most warranty calls really relate to water chemistry and get covered anyway?[/glow]
Let's not overlook this part of your dictionary lesson....b. The insured's guarantee that the facts are as stated in reference to an insurance risk or that specified conditions will be fulfilled to keep the contract effective.

Every warranty I know of states “dealer service and/or trip fee’s may apply” implying that they don’t pay for our service of coming out to the house or even the troubleshooting, they simply pay for the time to repair the defect. That written warranty is your contract!

Has anyone had a TV repairman out lately? Did they cover everything under warranty? I'm really wondering what other industries do....?


See! Now you understand!!!

Whenever that happens its the tech's job to explain the situation to the consumer and get it rectified.  Maybe cover it the first time and explain it wont be covered again if they dont learn to take care of it properly.  

[stuart]

Whenever that happens its the tech's job to explain the situation to the consumer and get it rectified.  Maybe cover it the first time and explain it wont be covered again if they dont learn to take care of it properly.  

Again, I agree

The issue here is, who "covers it" the first time? The dealer or the manufacture?

You see you still have to understand the dealers margins are at an all time low and his costs are at an all time high. So who pays for the mistake? It's very expensive to send a tech and service van out onsite....

[Summitman]

Again, I agree

The issue here is, who "covers it" the first time? The dealer or the manufacture?

You see you still have to understand the dealers margins are at an all time low and his costs are at an all time high. So who pays for the mistake? It's very expensive to send a tech and service van out onsite....

Stu,

I own a spa dealership so I understand where you are coming from.  The dealer covers it under the assumption that my guys didnt teach the customer good enough how to take care of the spa.  You know what, this kind of service to reasonable customers is EXCELLENT at getting you referals.  I do know where you are coming from, it sounds like maybe you should consider a increase in your spa pricing.

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

You don't have a warranty on the phone service, and if the phone goes dead because of something that happens on the phone companies end, they don't charge a trip fee.

NOT around here. The phone company will take care of any problems up to the point where their wires attach to the box on your hour. Any problems AFTER the box, YOU are responsible for. They'll fix it, for $75 an hour, or you can pay them a monthly warranty fee.

All these are reasons that the dealers have to decide if they should charge more for the spas upfront, or charge service calls.  If I were to implement a service call charge on warranty work I would make all my spa sales sign off on the notion.  I personally charge more for the spa, and then dont have the hassle of explaining warranty service call charges.  

The problem with this for many dealers is that by building is added cost for warranty work, they're now priced out of the picture compared to the guy down the road that DOES charge for warranty work. Remember two things, 1. people want to spend as little as possible, 2. people don't expect something new to break.... so the dealer down the road (charging for warranty work) will win almost every time.

[Summitman]

NOT around here. The phone company will take care of any problems up to the point where their wires attach to the box on your hour. Any problems AFTER the box, YOU are responsible for. They'll fix it, for $75 an hour, or you can pay them a monthly warranty fee.



[glow]The problem with this for many dealers is that by building is added cost for warranty work, they're now priced out of the picture compared to the guy down the road that DOES charge for warranty work. Remember two things, 1. people want to spend as little as possible, 2. people don't expect something new to break.... so the dealer down the road (charging for warranty work) will win almost every time.

[/glow]


I guess my business is doomed, wonder how I made it all these years.  I guess maybe a bit more of sales training would help some of these places?
 :-?