Troubleshooting help?

[CraigW]

I have a 2003 LA Spas Oasis with Gecko controls. Recently I've been getting random trips of 3 dots at the bottom of the display and the display blinking. I'm gathering from what I've seen online that it's probably the pressure switch, but was curious how to really troubleshoot that? When in this state, low  on pump 1 won't work, but high will, pump 2 works fine, and the heater light is on. A power cycle clears it, and everything works fine for a day or so then it happens again. Water level is fine, chemistry is fine, filters are clean, etc.

In yet another sign of the times, I called our dealer, because they have been very helpful diagnosing things in the past, and well, they're out of business. And this was a big dealer, who had been around for 20 or so years.

[Jacuzzi Jim]

I have a 2003 LA Spas Oasis with Gecko controls. Recently I've been getting random trips of 3 dots at the bottom of the display and the display blinking. I'm gathering from what I've seen online that it's probably the pressure switch, but was curious how to really troubleshoot that? When in this state, low  on pump 1 won't work, but high will, pump 2 works fine, and the heater light is on. A power cycle clears it, and everything works fine for a day or so then it happens again. Water level is fine, chemistry is fine, filters are clean, etc.

In yet another sign of the times, I called our dealer, because they have been very helpful diagnosing things in the past, and well, they're out of business. And this was a big dealer, who had been around for 20 or so years.

  When you see the 3 dots its a flow error,  sounds like you don't have a continues running circ pump?  Which means you use pump 1 on low speed to circulate water, and if pump 1 low spd doesn't work you will get the 3 dots when it calls for heat because the pressure switch doesn't detect enough flow to turn the heater on.

 The fact it works when you reset the breaker could mean a sticky relay on the circuit board or the pump is just starting to go bad and works intermittently and trips the breaker by the sounds of it??
 
 You can take the 2 wires off the pressure switch and touch them together,but all that will really do is make the 3 dots go away and it still wont heat unless pump 1 is running on low spd,  The pressure switch has nothing to do with your main pump running or not.  It is impossible I believe to have the heat light on when you see the 3 dots or is that after you reset it and pump 1 is running on low for the short time??  

 I would check the pump out first, worst case the circuit board is going bad.    

Hopefully others will chime in??

[CraigW]

Correct, no circ pump. Any suggestions on how to check out the pump since it seems to be intermittent? I'm very mechanically and basic electrically inclined, just not familiar with troubleshooting a hot tub! The pump was actually replaced under warranty right before the warranty ran out, so hopefully it's not the pump again. I would have sworn the heater light was on with the three dots, but it's kind of hard to tell which led is lit on the control panel, especially since it was dark last night when I was messing with it!

Oh yeah, so are you saying that the 3 dots won't keep the pump from running? When I was messing with it before resetting, pump 1 definitely would run on high spd using the control panel, but not low speed.

Thanks!

[Jacuzzi Jim]

 You can take a volt meter and unplug pump 1 from the circuit board, press the pump btn once to see if its sending power to the pump from the circuit board with the volt meter, if not its probably the board??   You will have to see what voltage your pump is first, either 110 or 220.

 As far as the pump goes about all you could check is the capacitor??  I honestly don't know much about that end of it.

  You would rather buy a new pump than a circuit board they are expensive,  It should be  Gecko s-spa pak  2 pump pack if I am thinking right??   You cant just change the board either I think you have to buy the whole pack??  


 The 3 dots are just an error code, if there is no water flow IE pump 1 not running you will get the 3 dots  you will also see them if your filter is clogged, have you tried it with the filter out??

   Something confusing is, if you run pump 1 on high spd do the 3 dots go away??  Dont run pump 2 at this point.
  In theory they should as the pressure switch or heater do not know the difference.?  

[CraigW]

Hmmm, nope the leds didn't go away when I turned pump 1 on high. Next time it does it (who knows when that will be) I'll check the power out to the pump and go from there. Hard to diagnose intermittent failures!

Thanks for the help/suggestions! I'll let ya know what I find. It's done it twice in the last 2 weeks, so we'll see.....

BTW, I think you're correct on the s-spa pack.

[SerjicalStrike]

Look at the circuit board.  If there is an LED light lit in the bottom right hand of the board, and you are getting the three flashing dots, you need a new board.

If the light is NOT lit, you need a new pressure switch.

[Jacuzzi Jim]

 I don't think the older S-spa pack will have the lite, M-spa would I believe?  

[SerjicalStrike]

I'm pretty sure that when they switched to the three light error code system, the pack was designed so that you could either have a combination of 3 dots and a light or 3 dots and no light.  Before that, they had actual error codes like FLO and FLC.  

I may be wrong though.

[stuart]

Cycle your pump through high and low speed several times to see if it is dropping low speed occasionally. They used Vico pumps on some of thier product back then and Vico had a problem with the low speed switch.

Usually it means you have a flow error, like dirty filters, blockage, slice valve closed or the low speed not working.

I've also seen a relay sticking on that board cause that but my bet is the motor....

BTW, the pressure switch could be stuck open or closed...your system first looks for an open and then looks for it being closed.

[hottubinn]

The problem is not a pressure switch, the lack of low speed indicates a high limit.  If it was a pressure switch the three dots would go away on high speed.  On these packs you cannot read power at the plug, you will always read phantom power whether power is being sent to the motor or not.  If you want to check the motor (highly doubt that is your problem) switch the red and black wires for the pump on the board.  If power being sent to low speed, high should come on (when wire switched).  You either have a bad hi limit sensor, or a bad board.  If your hi limit is soldered onto the board, a new pack is in order.  A new sensor can be soldered on, but it is a lot of trouble and may not be the cause of your problem- thus costing you more money.  If it is a removable hi limit, I would replace that first and see what happens.  I am not sure the age of your spa, but I have personally switched more than 50 packs in the past for this very problem.  Through my experience I would say you need a new pack.  If that is the case I would not replace it with a Gecko pack.  I usually replace all equipment with balboa.  Hope this helps....I may as well fix spas on the internet since no calls coming in! :-? :-?

[CraigW]

Thanks for all the suggestions! It hasn't happened since my last reset (Monday) so I haven't looked at anything yet, but I'll post more if/when it does happen. I assume it's only a matter of time since it's happened 2-3 times the last couple of weeks.

[stuart]

The problem is not a pressure switch, the lack of low speed indicates a high limit.  If it was a pressure switch the three dots would go away on high speed.  On these packs you cannot read power at the plug, you will always read phantom power whether power is being sent to the motor or not.  If you want to check the motor (highly doubt that is your problem) switch the red and black wires for the pump on the board.  If power being sent to low speed, high should come on (when wire switched).  You either have a bad hi limit sensor, or a bad board.  If your hi limit is soldered onto the board, a new pack is in order.  A new sensor can be soldered on, but it is a lot of trouble and may not be the cause of your problem- thus costing you more money.  If it is a removable hi limit, I would replace that first and see what happens.  I am not sure the age of your spa, but I have personally switched more than 50 packs in the past for this very problem.  Through my experience I would say you need a new pack.  If that is the case I would not replace it with a Gecko pack.  I usually replace all equipment with balboa.  Hope this helps....I may as well fix spas on the internet since no calls coming in! :-? :-?

I was a dealer on this pack in 2003 (I think that's the year he's talking about) and saw many of these that were for motor or pressure switch and would not go away on high speed. We also replaced packs for it but found not all of them were pack issues. More often than naught it was a low speed failing on the motor if it were sporadic.

I did see quite a few bad High limits in that series also....

Like hottubinn, I’m not a huge fan of Gecko and would replace it with a Balboa however; I wouldn’t replace anything until I got to the bottom of it. Too often in the spa industry I see whole packs replaced for a simple problem.

Then again, everyone here knows my utter lack of experience and knowledge….
  8-)

[CraigW]

Still running after the last reset, not sure if that's good or bad. Funny Stuart, you mention the low speed on the pump, the pump was replaced under warranty for a failed low speed. That time it was making nasty noises before it failed though.

BTW, just in case, if it does end up being the pack, with the Balboa, I assume something like the 501 is what I should be looking at? Is that reasonably close to a "drop in" replacement?

I'll keep ya posted!

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

As hot tub dan, we have replaced A LOT of Geckos., Usually it was an intermittent issue though. Besides the High limit being bad, we saw most that the board was toast, many from heater relays, but some from pump relays. Have you taken a peek at the board? Stick your nose in and give a whiff, any bad smells?

Many have greta ideas to try. Isnt troublshooting so much fun!

[Jacuzzi Jim]

 I am confused as to why a high limit would shut only the low spd of a pump down???  I have seen bad high limits on a gecko pack,but never one that stops a pump from working??

 Please enlighten me.