Tubs in CT must be CEC compliant

[SerjicalStrike]

You are correct.  The government should not be forcing cetain MPG standards on cars.  And the government is collecting too many taxes.  Now you want them to collect more taxes to pay for people to make sure hot tubs don't use a certain amount of electricity.  That is not what the founding fathers intended when they wrote up the constitution.

Tell me where in the constitution it says that the government should step in and regulate an industry so that they make better products.  

Consumers will dictate the market.  If consumers care what kind of MPG they get in a car, then they will buy on that issue.  If, as a consumer, I want to buy a car with 500 hp that gets 8 mpg, I should not be penalized for being able to afford it.  And a company should not be penalized for making it available.  

Any spa that has to make wholesale changes to meet these standards and has to raise prices was probably an energy pig in the first place. The last thing the consumer needs in the continued practice of a spa company saving $ by skimping on insulation and promising at the point of sale that their insulation method is great (and it has a fancy name too).

That is not an issue for the government to decide.  That is an issue for the market to decide.  There is a market for a < $3000 spa.  Do you really think those spas could meet these energy standards and still keep a low price?  I doubt it.  

Why doesn't the government just start building spas and cars?  They obviously seem to know what the consumers want.

[Spatech_tuo]

Serjical,
Lets just say that you and I have very different views and I couldn't disagree with your points more!!! Hooray for this first step by the CEC, it was overdue.  
 
It certainly won't mean that all CEC rated spas are equally efficient but its a start!!! Maybe now we'll have less issues of people buying spas where the salesperson tells them "its well insulated" and give it some name like "Kelvin Insulation!" but they find out after the fact its an energy pig.  
 
I see this as a win for consumers and if the price goes up $100 for a spa they'll get it back in energy savings in no time. For those manufacturers who may have to make wholesale changes just to get to the minimum requirements I question why their spas were so far off in the first place.

[gadfly]

... Consumers will dictate the market.  If consumers care what kind of MPG they get in a car, then they will buy on that issue.  If, as a consumer, I want to buy a car with 500 hp that gets 8 mpg, I should not be penalized for being able to afford it.  And a company should not be penalized for making it available.  That is not an issue for the government to decide.  That is an issue for the market to decide...

I thought that $4 gas, the housing crisis, stock prices, unemployment, golden parachutes, etc has made it pretty clear that the market needs a little help.  The current administration, the next, and even the challenger agreed that leaving "the Market to decide" failed.  Reasonable  regulation helps, but the question is where is the line.

[SerjicalStrike]

I thought that $4 gas, the housing crisis, stock prices, unemployment, golden parachutes, etc has made it pretty clear that the market needs a little help.  The current administration, the next, and even the challenger agreed that leaving "the Market to decide" failed.  Reasonable  regulation helps, but the question is where is the line.

Funny, I see those things as the reasons why governmet should stay out of the market.  

The market would not have decided to give out loans to people that didn't deserve them. CRA The government essentially forced them to.  
When the supply of oil cannot be increased, and there is a huge demand (China; Diesel competing for the same oil because of the ultra low sulfur), the price will go up.  
The stock market is really a place to invest discretionary income into companies that you think will make a profit.  It is a gamble.  Some people win, some people lose.  

The only way government can help unemployment is by making it easier for businesses to remain in business.  This means lowering the corporate tax rate and removing many of the needless regulations on many industries.  Government does not create jobs.  It only makes it easier/harder for companies to create/keep them.  

[gadfly]

This is a loop, that I tired of before the election, was even over.  I'll let you have the last word, if you want to keep hitting that horse. The country decided to try a different way, so we'll see where it ends up.

[Zep]

Wow SerjicalStrike....I couldn't agree with you more.

You need to join the political message board I frequent.

http://debategate.com/new3dhs/index.php?board=1.0