Garden Leisure and Paragon Spas--Worth it?

[newbiespaguy]

Hi.........like many others on this board, we went into this thinking we would get a nice spa and spend $5-$10k and live happily ever after.   We poured the pad in our backyard had the electrician run the wiring and everything is ready to go as soon as we pick our spa.

We can get Garden Leisure top of the line for cost which would be under $6k but I have not seen one in use nor found any feedback on these units.

We have wet tested a Sundance unit, and liked the Dynasty Neptune series but the jets seemed underpowered.  Bullfrog and Jacuzzi are other contenders but all are twice the price of the GL.  

Anyone got any honest feedback?

[hottubdan]

Not familiar with Garden Leisure.  However, usually if you can get a "deal" and get a spa "at cost" for under $6K you are getting a $6K spa for $6K.

However, double the price for Jacuzzi or Bullfrog?  That is also bullsh*t   unless you are looking at top of the line with accessories such as stereos.  You should be able to get a Jacuzzi, Sundance, Bullfrog, Hot Spring and others for you budget.

[newbiespaguy]

Let me clarify.  We have been looking at the 6-7 person, lights, stereo/ipod docks, you know all the bling!  Our contact showed us his price list.......the GL is $5600 cost and over 10k retail.  The bullfrog/sundance/jacuzzi's we looked at were all top o'the line and in the 10-12 range.  

[Spatech_tuo]

Not familiar with Garden Leisure.  However, usually if you can get a "deal" and get a spa "at cost" for under $6K you are getting a $6K spa for $6K.

Garden Leisure is one of the many brands made by Tatum who most famously (or infamously) makes Gulf Coast. To many of us they're known for glitzing up spas without maintaining quality and claiming they're worth much more than reality (i.e. the old "this is a $9800 spa that we're sacrificing for $5500" when they always sell for $5500). You won't be getting a quality $9800 spa for $5500, you'll be getting a $5500 spa and hopefully it'll work for you.

[Swell-Tub]

It was explained this way to me. The spa business has a few different markets. The biggest one is the general public who has up to an $8K budget. I will take Jacuzzi as an example they make the 300 series to address this market.

You then have the market for the high end and Jacuzzi makes the 400 series for this market. Arctic took another approach and offers the same tub but with different packages that take you up in price. For me if I wanted to stay under 8K I would have bought the Jacuzzi J-365.

Hot Springs is like GM they make Cadillacs, Chevys, and Buicks. They produce different lines to address the different markets. Now for me I wanted the big Kahuna so I looked at high end stuff because I wanted all the bling along with quality.

IMHO I would stay with the major manufacturers like Hot Springs, Sundance, Jacuzzi, Arctic, etc. and I think you will be happy. Good luck I know it is hard but when it's right it will be right.

Scott  

[newbiespaguy]

Thanks for your insight.  Your posts describe exactly what I have been worried about........I would love to get a "deal" but no price is good if the unit falls apart in a few years.
We also looked at a pilates 7 person unit at Costco but again I have no understanding of who makes it, who services it, and if anything beyond the price and options are good!

So that leaves us back in the higher end units (sundance maxxus/optima line), jacuzzi 400 series, maybe the bullfrog 682 or the dynasty that looks great but I am apprehensive about it's long term durability as well.  

Are we better off waiting for home show prices or are dealers working with people on pricing with the bleak economy and all.

[Spatech_tuo]

Thanks for your insight.  Your posts describe exactly what I have been worried about........I would love to get a "deal" but no price is good if the unit falls apart in a few years.
We also looked at a pilates 7 person unit at Costco but again I have no understanding of who makes it, who services it, and if anything beyond the price and options are good!

Guess what? Pilates is made by Tatum who makes Gulf Coast and Garden Leisure. If you buy that through Costco you get a good price but the quality is questionable and you'll be very involved. They drop it off at the curb. You move it in place, hook it up and get it going, figure out chems, etc and hopefully it'll come with a manual. If you have issues they tout their 24/7 phone service. What they don't explain is they have that in place because their goal is for you to diagnose and fix your own spa issues on site (with their phone assistance) so they can avoid sending out a tech. Good luck if you can't fix it over the phone and want them to send someone out. If you are a true DIYer who doesn't mid being his own service guy you may be able to make this work as that is the target audience who this should be for. If you want a warranty to mean it backed and serviced, this is not the route to go.

[Dr. Spaâ„¢ Ret.]

.......the GL is $5600 cost and over 10k retail.  

The "10k retail" is a purely made up number, to make you think that $5600 is a great deal. If you believe ANY differently, then you've fallen for a typical American marketing ploy.

[Spatech_tuo]

Are we better off waiting for home show prices or are dealers working with people on pricing with the bleak economy and all.

Generally speaking, home shows are NOT defined as having any better deals than you can get at the dealer showrooms. Think about it, they have to set up at the shows and often pay BIG $$ to lease the space, hire the sales people, etc. The value of the home shows is being able to see more than one dealer at a time, otherwise I personally think you’re better off in the dealer showrooms talking to people who you know will be in the same place a month later representing teh same brand when you receive your spa. If you do go to a home show make sure it is a local dealer at the show and not some brand being sold in a tent that day only to pull up stakes and leaves town the next day leaving you with no local presence for your brand after it gets delivered. Don't get me wrong, many at the home show are local dealers representing their brands but some are not, just be sure who you're talking to. Either way, you should be able to get just as good of a deal in the showrooms.

Visit your local dealers. Take another look at the Jacuzzi, Sundance and Bullfrog brands knowing you're getting a better quality spa with local support. If you want to look at others here are a few addtional top quality brands that may be local to you.


http://www.arcticspas.com
http://www.calderaspas.com/Locator/index.html
http://www.dimensiononespas.com/findadealer.asp
http://www.hotspring.com/index_spas_hot_spring.html
http://www.marquisspas.com/locator.asp

[Vanguard]

Tatum seems to be in the business of private labeling for others.  Dynasty used to make the Garden Leisure series until it was picked up by Tatum.  The Garden Leisure brand is owned by South Central Pool Supply.  SCP is a wholesale distributor to the pool industry.  They got into spas a few years back.  They own the brand so they can switch manufacturers whenever they get a "better" deal.

Tatum is also behind the new La-Z-Boy spas.  They also are in the midst of a name change to Living Waters Spas.  Not sure why the name change, but I do have it on a pretty good authority they are about to go Chapter 11.  If they do, we'll see if they can come out of it.

Here is the page that shows all of the Tatum brands:  http://www.tatummanufacturing.com/products.html

Never heard of Paragon Spas.

[hottubdan]

 but I do have it on a pretty good authority they are about to go Chapter 11.  If they do, we'll see if they can come out of it.

I heard that too.  Wouldn't mention it before, but since you did...

[Saved by Grace]

We have wet tested a Sundance unit, and liked the Dynasty Neptune series but the jets seemed underpowered.  Bullfrog and Jacuzzi are other contenders but all are twice the price of the GL.  

Anyone got any honest feedback?

I would encourage you to continue to wet test.  For us it made all the difference in choosing the right tub to fit us.  Go try the top manufactures and wet test, wet test and wet test.

Good luck,
Fred

[newbiespaguy]

Thanks again for everyone's input.

Sorry for the confusion regarding the pricing.  Our contractor gave us his SCP price book at the GL Lustre series model we liked was about $10,500.  He said he could purchase it for us for about $5,300.  There are no GL dealers in the area so wet test is impossible.  I am trying to get a list from our contractor of others who may have purchased one.  

Our Jacuzzi dealer is about 40 miles away and said the J-470 was $11,990 without stereo/lighting.  That price did not seem very attractive and based on what I am reading on this board, better deals are to be had.

Our Sundance dealer is local and has a Maxxus/Optima model (can't remember off the top of my head) with all options for $11,600.  

My bullfrog dealer has a 682 floor model for $9200.  Not perfect (wrong color and no stereo) but we may wet test this weekend and the jetpaks look interesting.  I am concerned about the way they insulate the tubs......love feedback if anyone has one.

And of course the Dynasty Neptune which I think is made by the same company as Garden Leisure has all the bells and whistles, plus dealer throwing in steps, chemicals, delivery, and no payments for a year for about $8500.    This is getting complicated but I know worth it in the long run.

[drewstar]

Hi Newbie.


It's my impression that Garden Leisure, Paragon, and Dynasty are lower end spas.  I wouldn't rush to buy one until you evaluate your other options.   Personaly  I don't think the low end spas are worth the money. Better to get a cheaper smaller quality unit, than a flashy POS. I think it's a better investment in the long run, and will get you better perfomance over the years.  A hot tub is a  commitment. It will sit in your yard for years.  By the right one up front.


What's the budget? you mention 5-10K. That's a huge window, IMHO.  

While, I think it will be diffiuclt to get a quality tub at 5K, I think you'll be able to find a dozens of brand name tub around 9K.  sure, the larger top of the line models will push over 10K,  but there are PLENTY of other tubs under 10K

What features are you looking for? If a steroe is a must have then you are pushing the budget.  Steroes are usually a $1000+ Feature on the brand name tubs.  


You mention insualtion.  I think if you are in a cold climate, then forget about the low end tubs, what you save on initial price will be eaten up in electrical costs in a few years. If you are in a warmer climate, then  I think it's less of an issue.  If you go with a major brand the insuialtion method isn't much of a factor, but on the lower end tubs, it can be a huge problem.  Low end thermal tubs don't hold the heat, and low end full foam can be a repair nightmare.  The message here is stick with a brand name.


Have you looked at Caldera? They are a sister company to Hotsprings and have a wide range of tubs in your price range.  

[newbiespaguy]

I am not a DIY-er so I would prefer quality over headaches.  Just trying to ascertain if I am paying for name-brand when the  Kirkland brand is sometimes just as good if not better to use a Costco example.  

I live in the Mid-Atlantic so we get hot humid summers, and cold winters.
Temp ranges from 15-100.  The unit will be outside and directly exposed to the elements.