Jacuzzi 100% no by-pass filtration???

[Saved by Grace]

Before this does go away....

Since we were the ones Spiderman was talking about when he first started this thread I though I might give some observations on the original subject.

We started our hot tub search completely ignorant of the industry.  My wife wanted one, I only wanted one because I knew she did.  (Now I think I'm more excited then she is) Since that very first day we walked through Spiderman's store we have come a long way in our knowledge of the tubs and the industry.  We've traveled over 700 miles, visited over a dozen stores and got wet a number of times.  While we are not experts at this point we are certainly not "Newbies" anymore.

Having said all of the that here's my take on the 100% filtration.  First of all, Hotsprings has a great marketing tool with the 100% filtration.  However, I really believe the best advise we got was that we should pick a tub from a major manufacturer that we really like and the filtration will not be an issue.  In other words, if the tub is a quality tub and we take care of the water we'll be doing good.

Secondly,  the more tubs we tested (Jacuzzis/Hot Springs) the more it seemed that the Jucazzi's had more power to them.  I'm starting to be convinced that part of the reason is because there is a bypass.  I don't know if this is fact or not but it sure seems like it.  When we sat in the Grandee we could not run all of the jets in all of the seats and have the motos going.  There were times the moto was on (we could feel the water) but not moving.  We did find a combination where each seat was utilizing jets but the moto seats then didn't have the shoulder jets going.  On the other hand, the J480 gets all the jets going...and is easily diverted to really blow you away.  This is just my opinion based only on short times in wet tubs, but it seems to me that the bypass pumps help to supply more power to the jets because they don't have to go through the filter.

Thirdly, I wonder about the fact that there are no in-takes at the bottom of the pool on the Hotspring tubs.  How does the dirt/sand that tends to settle get removed?  Perhaps the water gets swirling enough to lift it into the skimmer filter area, perhaps not.  I don't know its just a thought.

And lastly, Hotsprings is pretty excited about their new limelight line.  It's a good looking tub and has jets that remind me of the RX jets we love on the J480.  Spiderman has one filled and we might end up trying it just to be able to help them compare to other tubs.  Here's my point though.  It may be an awesome tub.....but there is no 100% filtration on it.  All of a sudden that "can't do without" marketing tool doesn't matter anymore.  Please don't get me wrong, the Hotsprings was our second choice and we were a refusal of our offer on the Jacuzzi away from buying a Grandee.  I think that much of the dealer and the product.  But after much time and research I have come to the conclusion that as far as a purchasing decision on 100 % filtration, it was (for us) an non-factor.

BTW...it's snowing, we may never get our deck built.

Thanks,
Fred

[Spiderman]

Congrats on finding a spa you love!  You guys did it the right way.  As far as your question about the Grandee, it sounds like the comfort control knobs, on the bartop, were not turned up all the way, or the diverter valves were not positioned correctly.  If the moto massage jets aren't getting enough air, they will not move up and down.  

Dirt and such in the footwell is easily removed with a spa vac.  With by-pass fittings, I'm guessing the dirt etc. will keep circulating through the pumps, heater and jets until you spa vac it out.  Stay in touch and let us know if we can do anything else for you guys.

[East_TX_Spa]

What's even worse than dirt and hair getting sucked into the pump, heater, plumbing, etc is pine needles.  We're located in the Piney Woods area of Texas and pine needles are all over the place.

Out on my deck at the store is a Solana SX spa.  It is typical of other spas in that it has bypass filtration.  I noticed that there are several pine needles sticking out of the bypass fitting in the bottom and it got me to wondering just how many now reside inside the spa's guts.

Anyways, to make a long story end happily, it was a great visual tool to explain to folks the difference in the two filtration options.  It made enough difference yesterday that one guy bought a HS Vista, one bought a HS Grandee, one family bought a HS Vanguard, one lady ordered a HS Prodigy, and another couple bought a HS Jetsetter.  

All of those spas have 100% No-bypass filtration and they felt that it was a very important feature to insure that they don't get all those pine needles in their spa's internals.

It made great sense to them to filter all the water, especially around here with all those pine needles....and fire ants!

Terminator (Gotta go deposit some checks!)  

[Saved by Grace]

J480 manual page 42... "Large debris are filtered when either jets pump is running when the spa is in use or during a programmed filter cycle.  These pumps draw water from the footwell suction fitting and through a secondary water polishing filter bag.  The exclusive footwell 'sweeper" suction fitting enhances filtration in the footwell area by creating a "swirling" water motion to mazimize particle agitation and pickup."

The suction in the bottom of the tub is filtered through a bag in the filter compartment.  I'm thinking the dirt, needles and fire ants won't be running through the pumps, heater and jets after all.

Thanks,
Fred

[East_TX_Spa]

J480 manual page 42... "Large debris are filtered when either jets pump is running when the spa is in use or during a programmed filter cycle.

"Either" not "Both"...two different things.  Even Jacuzzi Jim admitted as much.

Close, but no cigar.

On the other hand...

http://easttexasspa.dyndns.org/app/main_admin.asp

Login: guest
Password: hotspring

[Summitman]

"Anyways, to make a long story end happily, it was a great visual tool to explain to folks the difference in the two filtration options.  It made enough difference yesterday that one guy bought a HS Vista, one bought a HS Grandee, one family bought a HS Vanguard, one lady ordered a HS Prodigy, and another couple bought a HS Jetsetter. "


sweet, great job termie.  That sounds so good I almost believe it!

[Jacuzzi Jim]

Quick story! We had a couple of carney's get in a J-470 at the fair a year back, I opened the spa and the water looked fine, but their was a lot of sand/dirt in the btm of the spa and a beer can.   We ran pump 2 which flows through the bag filter and with in an hour it was 90% gone and all deposited in the polishing bag which will hold close to 8 lbs of sand/grit, it didn't suck the beer can through though.  

[Spatech_tuo]

Quick story! We had a couple of carney's get in a J-470 at the fair a year back, I opened the spa and the water looked fine, but their was a lot of sand/dirt in the btm of the spa and a beer can.   We ran pump 2 which flows through the bag filter and with in an hour it was 90% gone and all deposited in the polishing bag which will hold close to 8 lbs of sand/grit, it didn't suck the beer can through though.  

Any loose teeth in the bag?

[Jacuzzi Jim]

Any loose teeth in the bag?

 The carney's I saw when setting up, didn't have any teeth!

  

[East_TX_Spa]

sweet, great job termie.  That sounds so good I almost believe it!

I daresay I have more credibility than ANYONE on this forum.  Anybody can tune into my store 24/7 and see what goes on.

What part do you find hard to believe?

Terminator

[BauerN]

Ya know, on the subject of pine needles...

I live and work (on spas) in Western Montana.  If you know anything about this area, and our forests, enough said.

I've worked on quite a few old spas, not all of them Watkins.
Pine needles in the "guts" (heater, pumps, etc.) has yet to be a problem I encounter.  

I've had to pull numerous items out of pumps and plumbing, due to filters being left out.  But have never had an issue with ANYTHING coming through the suction fittings.

I always gave my customers (our 2 brands or otherwise) credit for having the intelligence (more like common sense) to be able to remove sand, grit, pine needles, etc. from their spas.

[Summitman]

I daresay I have more credibility than ANYONE on this forum.  Anybody can tune into my store 24/7 and see what goes on.

What part do you find hard to believe?

Terminator

"if you want to discuss credibility, discuss page 2 of Arctics warranty then pop off"

Did you delete this previous sentence from your post for any particular reason?  Also, our warranty is readily available online at arcticspas.com.  Its one of the best in the industry.  I also question what you really know about Arctic spas, since they arent one of your competitors.  I do appreciate your negativity.

[Jacuzzi Jim]

Lets get ready to RUUUUUMBLE!!

[Bonibelle]

So Jim, I am curious, is that polishing bag something that the spa owner would empty occasionally, or would it be emptied by a service person in the event of a problem?

I know sometimes I get grit in the bottom of my spa and if I forget to take the turkey baster out to suck it up, it mysteriously disappears on it's own..so it must somehow make it's way to my filters.

I have large ash trees around my house and if I leave the cover off my spa to shock, I occasionally get a few of those seed flyers in the tub..It has never been a problem as they quickly end up in the filters if I don't grab them out.

What could happen if they, by virtue of a by-pass, zipped through my pump and heater? Just wondering in the worst possible case, what would/could happen?

[Jacuzzi Jim]

So Jim, I am curious, is that polishing bag something that the spa owner would empty occasionally, or would it be emptied by a service person in the event of a problem?

I know sometimes I get grit in the bottom of my spa and if I forget to take the turkey baster out to suck it up, it mysteriously disappears on it's own..so it must somehow make it's way to my filters.

I have large ash trees around my house and if I leave the cover off my spa to shock, I occasionally get a few of those seed flyers in the tub..It has never been a problem as they quickly end up in the filters if I don't grab them out.

What could happen if they, by virtue of a by-pass, zipped through my pump and heater? Just wondering in the worst possible case, what would/could happen?

 Yes the bag can be easily removed and cleaned out by the spa owner, they suggest replacing every 6 months the run about 15 bucks or so.  I have seen them go much longer.  

 As far as your situation, the worst that could happen is the stuff could clog your heater eventually, however most if not all systems regardless of price of spa always have a filter before the heater.  Most pumps should be able to chew just about any needle/leaf type stuff up and be filtered out by water turn over.   Which really is the gray area with by-pass and no by-pass filtration.

 For me no by-pass filtration is not a big deal, is it a cool deal and a great marketing tool, sure, but it doesn't make a difference if your water chemistry is not maintained.   If it did I would say Hot springs should stop selling chemicals at least sanitizer anyway.